Empowered women, representation and why ‘House of the Dragon’ is relevant to the times

In the world of Westeros, the focus is on two women: The dowager queen, Alicent Hightower (Olivia Cooke) and queen Rhaenyra Targaryen (Emma D’Arcy). They used to be childhood best friends but their relationship is growing increasingly strained ever since Alicent’s son King Aegon II (Tom Glynn-Carney) began to rival Rhaenyra’s.

It is the war between the Green and the Black Councils. It is a battle of two powerful women in a patriarchal structure.

In an interview, showrunner Ryan Condal said, “These are two women of great privilege who grew up in positions of power and become more powerful as they go along. Rhaenyra becomes the heir to the throne and Alicent becomes the queen of the Seven Kingdoms.

“But they are still very many women in a world that rejects the value of women as military leaders, rulers and sovereigns.”

Now on its second season, “House of the Dragon,” the fantasy drama, is the second TV series in the “A Song of Ice and Fire” franchise. Based on George R.R. Martin’s 2018 book “Fire & Blood,” it is set 200 years before the events of “Game of Thrones.”

We interviewed the cast in New York and below are our conversations with the cast and showrunner on female empowerment, representation and the relevance of the series during these times among others.

Catch "House of the Dragon" Season 2 on HBO and HBO Go. 

Ryan Condal (Co-Creator/Co-Showrunner/Executive Producer/Writer) 

COURTESY: HBO AND RACHELL SMITH

Why do you think the show is relevant to the times? Why do people gravitate to watching the show?

"Game of Thrones" on the hall is a modern political intrigue dressed up in medieval clothing. I think that is appealing to people. Yes, there are dragons, the undead, skin changers, and fire magic, and all the stuff from the original series and people love those fantastical elements.

But I think it is the modern adult brush that the drama's painted in with that gets into the political intrigue that is going on the high thinking of these characters that scheme against one another. I think people really respond to that, that is why there are 3,000 movies made about the Tudors, we can't get enough backstabbing at court.

People see that modern theme, I think it's most relevant in our series or our existence in this present world, is the role of women in power in a patriarchal society. And look, the world is doing a much better job now of creating a place for women to have a voice to lead, govern, and rule.

Certainly, that wasn't the case in Rhaenyra and Alicent's time and the pressures that are applied to them do have contemporary echoes, particularly in the story, do really respond to that and that is one of the big things that will resonate in the course of the series. We start to meet them as teenagers of privilege growing up as women in power, and how this world plays against them. Even though Rhaenyra is now the queen, but how that constantly still holds her back.

Olivia Cooke (Queen Alicent) and Phia Saban (Helaena Targaryen) 

Talk about the women who are empowered in this show.

OLIVIA COOKE. COURTESY HBO AND RACHELL SMITH

Olivia Cooke (OC): Trying to have agency and autonomy within this sort of medieval fantasy world is so hard as they are coming up against men, who are hormonal. Just going off of it and creating a legacy and having their names in the history books - aren't they thinking of a better picture? What's best for the realm? And it would be so much better if the women got to rule, we see it now.

Phia Saban (PS): It is almost like the curse has been solidified, that is such a pessimistic thing to say. But I feel like, as with patriarchy, it isn't men or women solely, it is a culture that we all are a part of, and we see it in a female-to-female relationship in the show as well. They are a product of how they were raised. That is why I think the mother-daughter dynamic is interesting this season. We get to see Alicent seeing her young self and Helaena, and what a curse it is to be in this. How deep the disrespect for women runs.

OC: Yeah, how deeply the world is poisoned.

Do you have a process when the director calls you? Do you go to a secluded corner and internalize or something?

OC: No, I’m quite bad at that. I just don’t like doing it. I don't like to be depressed all day; I need to have some levity otherwise I just feel like I’ve just spent all these emotions. I need to bottle it and just use it while between action and cut. Otherwise, I just need to sort of shed it a little bit. I just can’t. I think it’s too much for me. I’d be spent by lunchtime if I stayed in that emotion all day.

PHIA SABAN. COURTESY HBO AND RACHELL SMITH

PS: I also feel like you can tell when you’re seeing a performance that’s like on the edge of a lot of things. When someone is really down in the dumpster is doing something intense. I feel like you’re always on the edge of loads of things.

OC: Yeah, Alicent is bubbly all the time. She’s so stormy. She’s a storm.

PS: Exactly, I think that’s pretty interesting.

Steve Toussaint (Lord Corlys Velaryon, “The Sea Snake”) and Eve Best (Princess Rhaenys Targaryen) 

EVE BEST AND STEVE TOUSSAINT. COURTESY: HBO AND RACHELL SMITH

How important is representation in this show? 

Steve Toussaint (ST): Representation is extremely important. For people who are always represented, they are used to it but for people who are not, that is very important to them. The representation of people of color is essential and very important. It means a lot to them. So, to see people of color like me in powerful positions is important. Fans are pleased to see people who look like me in the show. The show also emphasizes the relationship of two women even if the relationship is skewered. As we go to war, the voices that are restraining are female voices. We have Eve Best, Olivia Cooke or Emma D’Arcy.

What made you say yes to it and are you already very popular with your nephews and nieces in being part of the show?

Eve Best (EB): That’s hilarious! You're spot on. The only person who watches the show and is a die-hard fan of the show in my family is my 19-year-old nephew, Alfie. He is coming to see it in Paris, so pleased about it because he is absolutely obsessed with it.

ST: My nephews are in their 20s and they knew Uncle Steve is an actor and it is great. So now, my nephew to this day is really annoying - whenever he sees me, he goes “My Lord”, and I am “Please don't do that anymore; we are in public.”

EB: I think it was a “non-turndownable” gig. I haven't watched it, and I wasn't a fan, but I absolutely knew about it and knew what a big deal it was. I knew that part of the reason it was such a big deal, all these characters had all these incredible actors. All great and wonderful actors that I respected and loved, who used to be in the “Game of Thrones” at some point. So, it felt like this was an incredibly exciting project. Plus, I liked the little writing we were allowed -- I did respond to that in the end, which was the bottom line. I liked it. It's quite rare, in my experience so far, it is becoming less rare -- will become less rare, to be given a script that I like the writing. It is interesting and intelligent.

ST: Initially with these things, they send you a script or a scene and it is not from this, they don't tell you what it is and put it on tape and they’ll look at that. Then, you go to the next stage. I remember as my partner was reading it, it was the weirdest thing, he said this character was like Charles Dance. As I read these lines out, I hear his voice. Later on, I watched it all and there was a scene – and it was Charles Dance. As Eve has said, it was almost “non-turndownable” — you knew what it was. There was a tricky moment with negotiations, where I said maybe I had to walk away but luckily it was sorted. I was so glad, because I was watching it last night and said, “This is good”. I shouldn't sound surprised because we were only shooting our stuff, so we didn't get to see all the aspects and seeing it last night mixed together so well.

Matt Smith (Prince Daemon Targaryen) and Fabien Frankel (Ser Criston Cole) 

MATT SMITH. COURTESY: HBO AND RACHELL SMITH

They say you have to fall in love with your character before you have to portray him. Can you talk about that, is it true?

Matt Smith (MS): By nature of having to fill the boots of this human being, I don't know if you need to fall in love with them, but you need to comprehend them and understand why they are doing the things that they are doing. If the writing is good, which is -- on the show, you are in a position where the actions, although they might feel drastic because it is a drastic world, they feel understandable at least from an acting perspective.

When your character commits questionable acts, people say, "How can you like him", but with any character, you end up asking "How do we like Hannibal Lecter?” But we want him to get away when he is on the plane, and we enjoy him eating the security guard. He’s got something about him. He's got character and that’s what you fall in love with, despite their behavior.

FABIAN FRANKEL. COURTESY: HBO AND RACHELL SMITH

How did your life change when you joined “House of the Dragon”?

MS: Well, I met this man (Fabien) which is a bonus. We’ve garnered and gained some great friends and it’s wonderful to be in a show that people turn up to watch. So, I think on the whole it’s been positive.

Fabien Frankel (FF): It’s been amazing. So many people love to talk about celebrities and all that stuff. My life feels almost the same day-to-day as the day before other than days like this. These are anomaly days but in reality, your day-to-day, I do the exact things now as I did 2 or 5 years ago, I hang out with the same people. I go to some slightly nice restaurants. More or less my life is the same.

Harry Collett (Prince Jacaerys Velaryon) and Bethany Antonia (Lady Baela Targaryen) 

HARRY COLLETT. COURTESY HBO AND RACHELL SMITH

Talk about your first reaction when you went into the set and wore your costumes.

Harry Collett (HC): Cliche but it’s bigger and better this year. It’s just so useful when you’ve got a great costume and you’re stepping onto a set that is so big and you can pick up a scroll and it will have writing on it. So, you can use it in your performance. It makes our job easier, so much easier. If it’s a job anyway. It’s just immersive. It took my breath away, some of the sets were from Season One but they just expanded it. We’d be doing the scene and say, “Does it look big in here.”

BETHANY ANTONIA. COURTESY: HBO AND RACHELL SMITH

Bethany Antonia (BA): And the costumes. We have a new costume designer this season who’s absolutely unmatched and incredible, Caroline. It’s nice for us to be involved right from the beginning in that process. Because when you’re regular and you’re there at the start, you get to have so many fittings, try different things, and have a say on what you think is going to be comfortable. Because you’re going to wear it for eight months it’s important to get it right. We have so much time this season to do that and try all the different costumes. Yeah, it’s just so much bigger.

Tom Glynn-Carney (King Aegon II) 

TOM GLYNN-CARNEY. COURTESY: HBO AND RACHELL SMITH

Talk about improvisation. Did you ever do any improvisation in the set?

Yeah, a lot of it wasn't used as you could imagine. It is hard to improvise in this world because the language is quite particular and we in the show speak in ways you won't speak now - different dialects, and different vocabulary. I find improvisation, coming from a theatre background. I find that improvisation frees you up and allows you to bed in with the character and get to know the character a little bit more because you don't know what comes next. You get to be informed by your own choices, by your character's choices. It flips the reality a little bit. I find that useful on a show like this. It is the preamble, like the foreplay of the scene is the improv, and they roll the camera, and you go into the scene they've written. There is freedom to it. There is allusiveness and I find that helpful.

If you have Season 3, how do you see your character?

Increasingly desperate. I’d see him as focused, more laser attention, more driven. There would be a coldness to it more so than there is now. But we start to see that grow in Season 2. We see him go down in that downward spiral journey.

Ewan Mitchell (Prince Aemond Targaryen) 

EWAN MITCHELL. COURTESY: HBO AND RACHELL SMITH

You mentioned it was your first time seeing the whole episode, what was your reaction?

It’s liberating in the sense because during the course of the shoot, we are shooting almost two feature films simultaneously but never cross with each other - the Greens and the Blacks. So, in moments when I’m watching their side of the story, which I’m not as familiar with, I’m able to enjoy that and be a viewer. I get to be a regular audience because it’s not too stressful when I’m on the screen.

Matthew Needham (Lord Larys “ClubFoot” Strong) 

MATTHEW NEEDHAM. COURTESY: HBO AND RACHELL SMITH

How do you de-stress after you do your role?

I don’t. I just walk around in a constant state of anxiety and stress. I don’t particularly unwind or anything, in the car on the way home is nice because then you get home and reality is waiting for you. The real world and all that tediousness is there so you just have to go and deal with that. Just life, life is enough of a de-stress, mine anyway.

So, you mentioned Olivia earlier, do you have shorthand already working with her? Talk about your working relationship?

It is a very easy working relationship. We are on the same page, especially with (Larris and Allison), we understand what we are trying to do and that there is a strange, complicated, going on, that always doesn't seem instantly clear. There is shorthand in that, we know when we are rehearsing and what feels right, what is true and what isn't. There are not a lot of chit-chats, you just know it. You know what you're doing, you go that's right or that's interesting or less interesting. That is a way of looking at it whether right or wrong.