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Taika Waititi, Scarlett Johansson, Thomasin McKenzie and Roman Griffin Davis on creating the satirical black comedy ‘Jojo Rabbit’
Los Angeles — If you had a choice of an imaginary friend, who would it be?
Well, in Taika Waititi’s satirical black comedy film, “Jojo Rabbit,” 10-year-old boy, Jojo (portrayed by Roman Griffin Davis), has Hitler as his imaginary friend. Taika wrote, directed, produced and acted (as Hitler) the movie.
The film also features Scarlett Johansson as Jojo’s mother, Rosie Betzler and Thomasin McKenzie as Elsa Korr, the Jewish girl whom Rosie hides in her home.
The film won the top prize, People’s Choice Award, at the recently held 44th Toronto International Film Festival, where it had its world premiere.
We talked to the talented Taika and the cast and below are excerpts from our conversations with them.
Taika Waititi
Are you prepared for people possibly not getting the humor?
There are, but eventually they’ll get it. It will take some people a few years, some people it takes a while to get the joke, which I understand the point of something. I’m not in the business of trying to be a shock artist, I’m not here to make a controversy. I don’t mind if it follows me around, but it’s not my intention.
My intention is to tell a good story, and I’ll use whatever elements I have at my disposal to do that. I don’t do dramas; I don’t do those kinds of films. And again, I think comedy is a very important tool and a very strong weapon to be used against bigotry and dictators and we’ve been doing it for 80 years. It was 80 years ago this year that Chaplin released “The Great Dictator.” So, there’s a fine tradition of using comedy to attack bullies and people who promote hate and intolerance. So, I feel like I’m in good company. So, if anyone feels like saying too soon to use humor, it’s not soon enough.
How did you discover the children and why did you cast them in this movie?
I’ve worked with kids quite a lot in my films. What I tend to do, I like to cast children who are as close to the character I’ve written as possible so that they really don’t have to do much acting.
I don’t think it’s really fair to clutter a child’s mind with actor jargon. It’s better that they can be themselves and just say the dialogue and you get a more pure performance in my opinion. So, we did the typical audition process.
Roman came in at the eleventh hour. We were auditioning kids for about four months and he just came out of nowhere and he stunned us.
The thing about Roman is that he’s incredibly sensitive, emotionally mature and emotionally connected to other people as well.
He just cares about other humans and just as no child was born a Hitler youth or born a Nazi with those ideals in their heads, those qualities are what we want to see in Jojo, developed in Jojo, and he’s probably had those qualities his whole life.
But they’ve just been clouded over by these new thoughts and these new teachings. And so, for me, if Roman can represent the Jojo that I want at the end of the film, then that’s a great starting place.
And Thomasin is an incredible actor who was in “Leave No Trace” and she’s doing Edgar Wright’s new film and she’s doing “The King” with David Michôd. And she grew up in Wellington where I grew up in as well, and I’ve been friends with her parents, who are in the theater scene. I’ve been friends with them for a long time. So, seeing her growing up I didn’t realize she was such a good actor, and then I saw her in “Leave No Trace.” And she auditioned here and she was at the top of our list for the entire process.
How did you come up with the sense of humor? Where did it all come from?
I come from a very funny family. On one side, my father’s side, are indigenous people who are from New Zealand who have been colonized by the British and had been oppressed for many, many years by those guys.
And on my mother’s side, are Russian Jews who escaped the programs in the early 1900s, who eventually found their way to New Zealand. So, on both sides of my family, there’s a strong history of resilience and survival but also comedy, also an ability to tell stories and you have got to laugh in the face of darkness, in the face of danger. And I feel that their sense of humor has been a big influence on my work. I lived in Germany for about three years, in Berlin and I being an artist/painter, living in Prenzlauer Berg and dreaming of being a painter.
But I became a filmmaker, and even there, I was acutely aware of the residue of war. But also my friends were there, and there’s a fantastic sense of humor in Germany and that’s not what they are known for, but there’s a style of humor that if you get it when you’re there, it’s very funny. And it’s dark but it’s also observational.
So, a lot of my humor comes from observing things and I’ve always wondered why at Arnie’s, they had those stupid pants. And I think a lot of my humor just comes from asking those questions, why those pants? And I say oh, to ride a horse probably. Doesn’t make any sense. And so yes, there’s lots of those things.
And with Hitler himself, at some point, the realization that that’s what I was doing, I think it hit me when I put on the clothes and the stupid mustache and the hair and looked in the mirror, and then I realized oh shit, I’m doing this.
And there’s one thing to say you are doing it and it’s on paper and then you have to back that up and dress like that. And I think if there’s one way to describe the feeling of seeing yourself dressed like that, is just embarrassment really. Because he does look stupid. It’s ridiculous, the outfit; you look like a clown. So, it’s very hard to be taken seriously when you are directing as well when you are like that. You are looking at someone, you stare at someone, okay, do you think you can do it again but this time I want you to work, and then you realize that they are not listening to you, they’re just looking at Hitler talking to them.
Often I would take that off, because I would catch reflections of myself and things and it’s just not, there’s one way to bum out your day, is to see yourself dressed as Hitler.
But also, what was important to me was not to do an authentic portrayal of him because I’m not playing Hitler. I’m playing a 10-year-old who is in a grownup’s body. He can only know what a 10-year-old knows because he comes from a 10-year old’s mind.
The other thing is I just didn’t want to make the effort of, I didn’t want to give Hitler the satisfaction of studying him and giving him any more attention than he deserves. And there’s something that, I think it’s more empowering for me to not observe him and not give him the attention, not make the effort for him. So, I decided to just do it as myself really.
I watched 10 minutes of behind the scenes of the making of “Jojo Rabbit” and you were really good at directing kids. But how about at home? Do your own kids listen to you? Do they laugh at your jokes?
Some of them, some of my jokes. They like to humble me. They don’t care what I do for a job which is great. I love coming home to where they just want to play and want their dad to come and play and hang out with them and talk and make drawings and that’s what I love doing with them, is getting away from having to think about work or the outside world and just get down to their level and spend time with them. And I think I’m a pretty good dad. I’m a pretty good cook as well.
What’s your signature dish?
I make great lamb, really, really good lamb, because I come from New Zealand. Oh man, I can really cook lamb. But for the kids it’s usually vegetables and protein. It’s very simple, my kids don’t like sauces or spices or tastes. They like butter or carbohydrates.
Do they know what you do?
Sometimes they do. My four-year-old daughter doesn’t, but my seven-year-old, she does yeah. She said I did a really good job on “Iron Man.”
Scarlett Johansson
How did Taika Waititi approach you with this particular film?
I should start by saying how I found the script, or the script found me. So, I actually had heard about the script through Chris Hemsworth who had just finished doing “Ragnarok” and we were doing “Infinity War” at the time. And he just was telling me that Taika had this incredible script that he read. I don’t even think it related to having a part in it or anything like that, he just loved that script so much and we were talking about Taika and he said I read this incredible script “Jojo Rabbit,” you have to read it, it’s like nothing I’ve ever read.
And then of course I was, what’s it about and he’s, uh, you should just read it, the pitch doesn’t work. And then a couple of months later my agent, actually, had said I read the new Taika script and he was effusive about it and again, he said the pitch is not great. And so I read it and it’s so rare…I obviously have read enough scripts in my life to know when something comes across and it was this perfect gem.
It was so beautifully written, the script was…I’m sure at some point it will be released for consideration for stuff, it was so…like Taika, it was whimsical and childlike and also very poignant and heartbreaking. The characters’ strength was in their vulnerability. It’s so rare to read a script that knows what it’s going to be, and I just wanted too much to be a part of it.
And I also fell in love with the Rosie character so much and had such an empathy for her. And when I met with Taika, I knew him because we had some friends in common and also Marvel family in common and I guess, I don’t know whether I was supposed to try to convince him to cast me or he was supposed to try to convince me to be a part of it but it just basically turned into us just having a drink because we knew each other.
I don’t think we talked about the project at all. It was, let me know when you need me and he was, ok great. That was it. Then I saw him on set. We had a couple of chats about some logistical stuff and accent work and costume stuff and things like that and casting ideas he had but it was a seamless process.
I really enjoyed your chemistry with the kid Roman. Was there some improvisations in some of the scenes like when you were trying to be the father?
Yeah, that particular scene was actually written that way, but we did a lot of improvisation for certain comedy bits. Taika is constantly rewriting and getting ideas. He hears the musicality of the dialogue and his timing is so particular that he and the rhythm, the cadence of the dialogue is something that he’s very sensitive to. He was constantly trying to just make stuff better. It was very different.
I had just done “Marriage Story” with Noah (Baumbach) and you don’t add or take away any dialogue, he’s really strict about that, the words are the words and that’s all. So, it was different for me, it was kind of a little jarring, I’m not used to improvisation as much, it’s not my comfort zone so it was an interesting challenge for me. But a fun one. And of course, if you’re going to have a partner to do that with Taika’s great because he’s ready to try whatever and he’s not precious about anything.
Every time I see a kid actor in a movie with you, I think about you as a young actress. What was the best and worst memories from that time when you were a kid actor?
I have many, many wonderful memories of being a kid actor. I really loved my job and I had a lot of really exciting dramatic moments as a kid. I remember doing “The Horse Whisperer” and having this profound realization of oh, this is acting; I suddenly went from being this natural kid actor to actually beginning to understand what the work was. And that was a really exciting time for me, that discovery was life changing for me.
The bad side of it?
I remember, I traveled a lot and I was away from home a lot and I was lonely at times. I had my mom with me and we were very close also when I was a kid and so that helped. But I missed my family a lot. I felt like there was this kind of hole in my life when I was going to miss my brother a lot and I felt far away from home. And as far as my daughter is concerned, I would encourage any of her passions, I really would.
Even acting?
Yeah. I love my job; I’ve had such a wonderful experience. I love my job now more than I ever did before and feel so thankful that I’ve been able to do what I loved since my childhood. I have friends who are classical musicians and dancers. They share a similar experience or some that are gymnasts. They share an experience that we had, we were professional children. It was so clear what we loved to do and what felt like we were pursuing an art that was in our soul, was in our bones.
We have different stories how it worked out with our families and stuff but for me I had a really supportive mom who was very careful and mindful and was a wonderful guardian for me and really looked out for me.
Whatever my daughter would love to do, if she turned around and said I want to be a black belter in karate and pursue that the most important thing I think is to make sure that you’re having fun doing it. And my mom always told me that too, she goes, when it stops being fun then you don’t do it anymore. It’s not always fun.
Thomasin McKenzie and Roman Griffin Davis
When you read the script, did you have a good image of how to play it?
Thomasin: I think the kind of tone of the film was the second you read the script you understand it. It's a really hard film to pitch so when you're explaining it to someone, whoever you're explaining it to just thinks you're crazy. It's a very hard film to to get across the message and the, theme and the tone.
You never really know exactly how you're going to play a character until you're on set and you're actually doing the scene and because things change and ideas change and you get to understand the character more and more as you go along. So, no, I don't think I had a set image of how I wanted to portray her.
Roman: Well, it was kind of in the script like whatever I play on the script like what it was going to look like for me and such and what the character is. I think every turn and every emotion is in there so I tend to say the lines really fast and I forget them in a German accent.
Roman, did you like the uniform?
I think that will be quite controversial when I said yes (laughter) so yeah.
Talk about working with Taika Waititi and how was your first day with him?
Roman: We were doing that scene in the tent and I remember that was the audition I did. That's the scene I did in the audition, so it was quite fun, and I just met him for the first time so that was hilarious but no, it went on.
I remember it took quite a while that scene but it was really fun and the tent was so cool but we had to sleep on these like rucksacks that literally were bricks so I came home like that (pretends to have a stiff neck) just walking around with my neck like that but no, no, it was great and Taika was great as well.
Thomasin: I think the first scene we filmed together was the first scene you actually see them, see us for the first time and see Elsa and Jojo together.
Roman: Oh, yeah, where he puts the knife against my neck.
Thomasin: Yeah, and I had a great time kind of bullying, pushing him around bullying him. It's always intimidating on your first day I think but Taika made it such a welcoming space and experience and we just had fun and tried new things and we were just playing around I guess.
So if you had a chance to have an imaginary friend, who would it be and why?
Roman: Well, I was never creative enough to make my own, so I copied “Star Wars.” Yeah, basically Anakin Skywalker was my friend and Dofine, my uncle, and, Yoda was like my dad or something.
Thomasin: I had a really strange imaginary best friend that I got from a book series. It was tiny like a fur, a hairball so it looked like something a cat would cough up. But it would be fun to have an Audrey Hepburn or someone like that to be an imaginary friend. It's nice. She's not imaginary but to have her guiding me and giving me advice.
Roman, did you do any particular bonding with Scarlett Johansson so she could be convincingly your mother and did she give you some plus points with your friends that Black Widow is playing your mother?
Well, sadly, we didn't get to hang out with Scarlett beforehand but she's very encouraging and she's a mother. She was a child actress so she encouraged me to be the best I can. — LA, GMA News
