The national convenor of Pantay, a youth-led gender equality advocacy group and Pride PH, Vince Liban, talks to Howie Severino about the state of LGBT rights in the Philippines.

He explains why, in a society with wide acceptance of LGBTs, the SOGIE equality bill has languished in Congress for 24 years.

The recent pronouncement of Pope Francis that priests can now bless same-sex couples was a win, says Liban, and can help open minds to the possibility of legalizing same-sex marriage.

HOWIE: Magandang araw, mga podmate. Howie Severino muli na nagpapaalala na nakakatalino ang mahabang attention span.

Ang Hunyo ang Pride Month at okasyon para talakayin ang mga LGBTQ issue.

Ang guest natin ngayon ay si Vince Liban, national convener of Pantay, a youth-led gender equality advocacy group at siya rin ang national convener ng Pride PH, which is a network of LGBT and Pride organizations. Magandang araw sa 'yo, Vince, and welcome to my podcast.

VINCE: Magandang araw po. It's a pleasure to be here. Happy Pride, everyone.

HOWIE: Thank you, thank you. Vince, I have seen a lot of interviews about LGBT issues lalo na sa US, where often one of the first items discussed is the pronoun that should be used for the interviewee or interviewees. How relevant is that discussion of pronouns in the Philippines? Kasi alam natin 'yung mga wika natin ay mas gender neutral. Wala naman tayo talagang mga gender pronoun tulad sa English na "he", "she", 'di ba? Kasama ba 'yan sa usapin sa LGBT community sa Pilipinas?

VINCE: Well, Sir Howie, maganda na nabanggit ninyo na 'yung sa Filipino, ang pronouns o 'yung panghalip natin ay gender neutral. 'Yung "siya", 'yung "sila", 'yung "sa kaniya", o 'yung "sa iyo" are easily attributed to a gender neutral person. Kasi we really don't care siguro, for the lack of a better term, kung ano man 'yung kasarian nu'ng kausap natin.

Sa ibang wika, mayroon silang pagkiling or recognition doon sa gender nu'ng kausap nila. For the LGBT community, it's also a way to affirm one's gender identity, or also a way for a person to identify or self-identify their own gender.

It's a habit amongst us advocates na 'pag nagpapakilala, pinapakilala muna namin ang aming mga sarili, kasama ang aming mga panghalip o pronouns, para to establish a safe space for LGBTQ+ members to come out and at the same time, affirm their identities, lalo na 'yung mga transgender individual.

Ang pagiging transgender po ay kapag ang kasarian mo, 'yung gender identity, doesn't match your assigned sex at birth. So kapag ikaw ay nag-a-identify as babae, pero ang iyong assigned sex at birth ay male, you are a transgender woman, and you, of course, identify or you have pronouns who are for women, 'yung "she", "her", halimbawa.

Important siya kasi aside from a discussion on self-determination of one's gender, it's also about establishing a safe space for everyone. 'Pag pinag-uusapan natin itong mga usaping LGBT, you're also saying, na ito ay espasyo kung saan sila ay ligtas at mapakikinggan.

HOWIE: Okay. Of course, that's relevant 'pag English 'yung wika na ginagamit, 'yun ang context niyan. Kasi sa English lang naman may "his", "her", "he", "she", ano? Sa wikang Pilipino, whether it's Tagalog, Bisaya, Ilocano, whatever, wala tayong, hindi nagdi-distinguish 'yung wika sa mga gender.

But that being the case, so what does that say about Filipino culture if language reflects culture? Kung sa ibang kultura, sa ibang wika it matters, I mean, the pronouns matter because they distinguish gender nga, they establish your gender, sa atin hindi. What does that say about our indigenous culture?

VINCE: Kami po sa Pantay and many advocates, I think would affirm this na we believe Filipinos are inherently kind and respectful to one another, especially mayroon tayong 'yung pakikipag-kapuwa. Nakikita natin 'yung kapuwa-tao natin bilang kapantay at hindi bilang ibang tao.

Ang sabi ng mga historian at mga sikolohistang Filipinos, it's also about putting oneself in the shoes of others. So kaya natin to empathize with them. At kaya natin makipag-kapuwa.

Para sa mga historian naman din, ito raw ay isang manifestation noong inherent natin na pagrespeto roon sa people with diverse na kasarian. In pre-colonial times, ang mga queer people ngayon, mga LGBT people ngayon ay itinuturing na pinuno or leader ng kanilang mga pamayanan. May mga babaylan tayo, 'yung mga tinatawag natin ngayon na transgender or gender non-conforming individuals who affirm the role of women or priestesses in their communities and they are leaders of the community.

Malaki ang role ng mga LGBT people before. At hindi lang ito nakikita roon sa Pilipinas, sa pamayanang Pilipino. Other cultures also exhibit respect towards people of diverse gender. At nakakatuwa kasi nag-reflect siya sa wika natin at dinadala pa rin natin hanggang ngayon.

HOWIE: Okay. Sinasabi mo nga na likas sa kulturang Pilipino 'yung respeto, 'yung pagkapantay-pantay ng mga gender whether you're male, female, transgender, babaylan, gay, lesbian, et cetera, kaya may contradiction. Kasi ang daming issues natin ngayon and 'yung ating lipunan ngayon ay tila nahuhuli sa ibang lipunan. And a lot of social policies including LGBT policies or policies that affect LGBTs.

I mean you know, there are many societies now where legal na ang same-sex marriage, et cetera. So how do you reconcile that na mayroon tayong likas na kulturang ganito, an indigenous culture that's inclusive, that respects all kinds of people? And sabi mo, it's inherent sa atin 'yung empathy and all that. And at the same time, structurally ang daming balakid sa tunay na equality sa ating lipunan sa panahon ngayon.

VINCE: Yes. Hindi po namin maikakaila actually na even if the surveys say halimbawa na 70% of Filipinos or more than 70% of Filipinos support LGBT people, that's 7 out of 10 Filipinos na nagsasabi na tanggapin na natin 'yung mga bakla at lesbiana, nandu'n pa rin 'yung kakulangan ng batas na nagre-recognize ng karapatan ng mga LGBT people.

At nandu'n pa rin siyempre 'yung mga tao na naniniwala na hindi dapat binibigyan ng karapatan ang mga LGBT. It's ironic, really because in the Philippines, kung mayroon kang gan'un kataas na public support, dapat ay nagta-translate siya roon sa mga batas. But we also found out that there are... of course, enemies of equality kasi hold positions of power that could potentially delay the passage of such important laws.

They usually hold positions like a Senate president, halimbawa, or a majority leader, or even a chairperson of a Committee on Human Rights that would prevent the passage of such laws. Nakakalungkot isipin na may mga ganito but we remain hopeful, especially for the SOGIE Equality Bill to finally pass after more than 24 years in Congress.

Because it's also a reflection of the dreams and aspirations of the LGBTQ+ community and their families. Naniniwala rin po kami na sa haba-haba man ng panahon na isinalang 'yung mga batas na ito, dumaan siya sa maayos at tamang proseso ng konsultasyon, ng debate, at napakinggan ang lahat ng sektor ng lipunan. So wala na tayong, actually, dapat nga masyadong mahabang pinag-uusapan. Kasi if you support equality, you should support the SOGIE Equality Bill.

SOGIE EQUALITY BILL
    
HOWIE: Okay. Just to refresh our listeners and viewers, ang SOGIE ay Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Expression Equality Bill. That's the SOGIE Bill. Sabi mo nga, matagal nang nakasalang 'yan. It was first filed in year 2000. So 24 years na. Isa na sigurong sa mga longest running bill na tinatalakay ng Kongreso. Hindi mapasa-pasa. But in a nutshell, Vince, what is the SOGIE Bill? What will it promise LGBT and society in general?

VINCE: Okay. The SOGIE Equality Bill po is an anti-discrimination bill that protects all Filipinos on the basis of discrimination, on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, and expression. 'Yung sexual orientation ay kung paano po kayo nagmamahal o naa-attract sa ibang tao.

Gender identity, how you identify yourself, and gender expression, how you express yourselves. Sa atin, nakikita natin na marginalized groups in terms of sexual orientation, gender identity, and expression, ang mga LGBT people. Of course, lahat ng mga Pilipino ay mayroong sexual orientation, gender identity, and expression, o SOGIE. 'Di ba?

If you are straight, halimbawa, or heterosexual, you are attracted to the different sex, that's your sexual orientation. If your gender identity is a man, and you're fortunate to have aligned your gender identity with your assigned sex at birth, 'di ba? You're a cisgender person, you're a cis man. That's also a gender identity. So lahat po ng tao ay may SOGIE.

The SOGIE Equality Bill offers the promise of breaking discrimination or 'yung barriers to equal opportunities. Kasama po rito siyempre, 'yung diskriminasyon na nararanasan sa eskuwelahan, halimbawa, ng maraming LGBT students. Nandyan din 'yung diskriminasyon sa workplace, mga LGBT people na hindi natatanggap sa trabaho, hindi napo-promote sa trabaho dahil lang sa kanilang kasarian.

At siyempre, nandiyan din 'yung discrimination sa access to public services. May mga public service po na hindi natatamasa ng ilang mga LGBT family, LGBT individual and their households. At ito sana 'yung gusto nating i-address. Naniniwala tayo na kapag may SOGIE Equality Bill, queer people or LGBT people are free to contribute to society, to nation building. There have been a lot of studies na nagsasabing may economic cost ang discrimination.

Pero kapag nag-establish ka naman ng inclusive policies, you also promote economic development. So naniniwala kami na chaka ang diskriminasyon, Sir Howie, pero mas happy 'pag may equality.

HOWIE: Okay. Let's talk about real world situations that a lot of common people are concerned about. Would the SOGIE Bill allow transgender people to use women's restrooms?

Not all biological women are comfortable with that. How would that work under the SOGIE Bill? In a way, that would be a form of discrimination if you don't allow people who identify as women to use restrooms for women, 'di ba? So how would that work? Or is the SOGIE Bill relevant in that kind of situation?

VINCE: Bathrooms are just one aspect of an incident involving discrimination, halimbawa. Marami ang mga LGBT people, especially trans people, na nagkakasakit po sa bato. It's actually a health concern dahil lang hindi sila makapag-CR nang maayos because sometimes they also experience harassment and bullying just to access comfort rooms.

Pagdating po roon sa comfort rooms, the SOGIE Equality Bill actually offers two options. 'Yung una, gender-inclusive bathrooms. At pangalawa, gender-neutral bathrooms. Sa single-use na bathroom halimbawa, sa ating mga tahanan, gender-neutral naman talaga siya, 'di ba? Kasi iisa lang ang CR para kay nanay, para kay tatay, para kay ate at kuya at kung mayroon man silang mga kapatid na LGBT. So wala naman talaga siyang problema.

But pagdating doon sa comfort, marami nagsasabi na, "Naku, baka prone 'yan sa abuse and sa harassment." Sir Howie, sinasabi mga ganu'n. But I want to assure you that many of the local government units that have enacted their anti-discrimination ordinances have not experienced such.

Even mga educational institution that have adopted a gender-inclusive and gender-neutral bathrooms, zero cases of sexual harassment.

Because ang sexual harassment happens because of sexual harassers and not LGBT people. And we have laws that would protect all of us against sexual harassment. You have the Anti-Sexual Harassment Act, you have the Safe Spaces Act. So may batas para doon. At hindi ito dapat maging dahilan para pigilan ang SOGIE Equality Bill sa pagpasa.

HOWIE: CRs are a common concern for everybody kasi lahat tayo gumagamit niyan. So I need to ask you a little bit more about this. So itong gender-neutral or all-gender bathrooms, these are CRs na may mga urinal, may mga toilet stall, at babae, lalaki, LGBTQ, kahit sino puwedeng gumamit, right?

VINCE: Wala naman pong all-gender restrooms na para sa lahat. Kapag gender-neutral ang pinag-uusapan, it's single-use comfort rooms. So pang-isahan lang po talaga siya. That's the idea. For establishments to at least have an option, for a single-use gender-neutral restroom.

Pagdating naman po sa gender-inclusive comfort rooms actually, hindi naman siya about, you know, exact like for a women's bathroom to welcome all, 'di ba? It's about the women's bathroom welcoming women. And in this case, kasama po roon ang transgender women. 'Yung transgender woman naman can go inside, 'di ba? Or avail also of the gender-neutral single-use restroom.

HOWIE: and mayroon na bang modelo nito? May mga example na nito sa Pilipinas?

VINCE: Yes po. In the many local government units that passed, Quezon City for one, ini-implement na siya at least sa city hall. Their gendered restrooms are inclusive. And at the same time, there's an option for a gender-neutral restroom. Again, hindi po natin gusto na magkaroon ng LGBT restroom. Ang gusto natin ay gender-neutral restroom.

I always tell the story of when African-Americans were denied the use of bathrooms. Dati sine-segregate 'yung mga white sa black Americans, 'di ba? And it's the same that's happening now. 'Yung fear natin na ang black woman before ay bawal mag-CR sa CR ng white woman is unfounded. We realize na eventually those fears are because we do not understand the different identities of these people. And at the same time, nandu'n naman talaga sila para umihi lang or umerna.

HOWIE: So linawin ko lang, 'yung gender-inclusive or all-gender CR, hindi ko alam kung 'yun ang tamang description, is 'yung single-use, tama? Hindi 'yung halo-halo 'yung mga tao sa iisang CR?

VINCE: The single-use restrooms po are gender-neutral or all-gender restrooms. 'Yung mga single-use. Pero po mayroon pa ring mga gendered restrooms whether for women or for men siya. We hope these restrooms could be inclusive also. Pero ang naging compromise nga po roon, 'yun po 'yung pangarap ng mga advocate, of course, for them to be included. Again, hindi po natin sinasabi na ang isang lalaki ay magsi-CR sa women's bathroom. Ang sinasabi natin, we will add options of single-use restrooms for all genders.

HOWIE: Okay. And if a transgender woman is not allowed to use a women CR, that's a form of discrimination?

VINCE: Unless there's an option for a gender-neutral bathroom.

HOWIE: Okay. And if that person is forced to go to the men's restroom, would that be considered like harassment or discrimination?

VINCE: Yes. If a transgender woman is forced to go to the men's restroom, especially kung mayroon naman pong ideal na gender-neutral single-use restroom, I think that's already bordering harassment. Again, wala naman pong inaapakan na tao ang isang transgender woman na gusto lang umihi. Kung pagbabawalan mo siya na mag-CR doon sa gender-neutral bathroom at sasabihin mo pa sa kaniya na, "Umihi ka roon sa panlalaki" kahit wala naman siyang inaapakan ng ibang tao or ginagambala na ibang tao, that would already border harassment and discrimination.

HOWIE: And may kaso siya? I mean, may mga paraan, may mechanisms na mag-file siya ng complaint based on that?

VINCE: Yes. But the proposed bill is not punitive, Sir Howie. Actually, the current version of the bill is simply the first offense is gender sensitivity training. Baka akala kasi ng mga tao ikukulong agad sila. We believe in restorative justice. And at the same time, we believe people can, of course be gender sensitive and inclusive for people, lalung-lalo na wala namang inaapakan na ibang tao.

SAME-SEX MARRIAGE    

HOWIE: Okay. Kasi may mga nagsasabi na 'yung SOGIE Bill, that's the first step towards same-sex marriage. And of course, that also begs the question from a lot of people, what's wrong with same-sex marriage? But just to clarify, the SOGIE Equality Bill will not legalize same-sex marriage, right?

VINCE: It will not po. It will not. It's not a marriage equality bill. We also included there na we hope the SOGIE Equality Bill equalizes access to public services except marriage license. And if you want to legalize marriage equality, the Supreme Court also said that it might require amending the Family Code. And we leave it to Congress to do such. So this is not a marriage equality bill.

HOWIE: But marriage equality is part of your agenda, right? I mean, that is a goal for the LGBT community, tama?

VINCE: Yes. Yes. Marriage equality, even in the forms of civil unions or civil partnerships, definitely that's one of the dreams of the community. You know, for the state to recognize the right to love and the right to have a family because we exist and we already have rainbow families here in the Philippines.

In Pride pa lang, Sir Howie, last year we had more than 300 sign-ups ng rainbow families. In Quezon City also, they're already implementing a commitment ceremony for LGBT couples. There's also the Right to Care Card that would allow LGBT couples to be medical proxies of their partners should something happen to them. This wasn't legalized, of course, because wala namang kasal para sa dalawang bakla o dalawang tibo.

We found ways how the legal system would allow two couples, same-sex couples to still have that benefit of being medical proxies.

HOWIE: You know, I've attended a same-sex wedding. And there was even a religious person, of course, not sanctioned by the Catholic Church. Pero it was a religious person who blessed the couple and there was a ceremony. What would be the significance of that?

That's not recognized by the state, obviously. Hindi ka mabibigyan ng marriage license kasi wala pa ngang marriage equality law, 'no? But why go through with that?

VINCE: For many couples, I also attended some ceremonial weddings for LGBT couples. It's an affirmation of their love. It's an affirmation of their commitment to each other na kahit nakatalikod ang ibang tao sa kanila, mahal nila 'yung isa't isa. And I think that's what matters.

But of course, sa aming advocates, i-recognize man siya ng simbahan, actually, kebs na ako, eh. I would leave it to the Church if they want to recognize us or not. But in terms of the right to be recognized by the states, have equal benefits, for example, to your spouse, other countries are already doing that.

And ang hirap naman, Sir Howie, na hindi i-recognize, halimbawa ng isang estado ang isang couple na bakla. Sampung taon na silang magkasama pero wala pa ring spousal benefits, halimbawa. Lately nga lang po naisama 'yung benefits sa insurance. Lately lang nahanapan ng way 'yung medical proxy through Right to Care, among other things.

Pagdating doon sa pag-a-adopt halimbawa ng mga bata, ang nangyayari ngayon, LGBT couples, isa lang 'yung magiging magulang ng bata. So magiging solo parent pa siya. So there's always a roundabout law that would hopefully provide some band-aid solutions. But it's still not recognition of the love that we have for our families. So medyo nakakalungkot siya but we try to reaffirm our existence and at the same time our love.

HOWIE: Kasi kasama riyan sa mga disadvantage ng wala tayong marriage equality law. 'Pag kailangan ng next of kin, halimbawa, may emergency, kailangan blood relative, right? Kasi walang official spouse, eh. Kahit sabi mo nga, parang 20 plus years na magkasama 'yung couple, hindi pa rin siya kino-consider na next of kin. 'Di ba? And then, hindi siya awtomatikong nakakamana sa ilalim ng batas, 'di ba?

VINCE: Especially doon sa mga business po na... o kaya mga ipon nila together. Kung nakapangalan halimbawa sa iisang tao lang at sa hindi magandang twist of fate ay nategi 'yung isang person na ito, hindi automatic na mapupunta sa partner niya, unless they have prepared some legal remedies for that.

HOWIE: Would you have a general idea how many countries in the world  already have same-sex marriage?

VINCE: Yes. Ang alam ko na sa 30 plus po na bansa. Sa Asya, nandiyan na ang Taiwan, nandiyan na rin ang Nepal, halimbawa. And lately, isa sa mga nagpe-prepare ng marriage equality law na ipasa ay ang Thailand. These are the leading countries in terms of LGBT rights in Asia. And I think Japan is also in talks of adopting and legalizing that because they've already implemented such laws in certain provinces yata sa Japan.

HOWIE: I know some Filipino couples who went to the States para magpakasal. Ano ang applicability niyan sa Pilipinas? What's the advantage of that if you get married in the States but you live in the Philippines? What difference would it make?

VINCE: Technically po, we also talked to several experts na about this na technically, hindi sila mare-recognize as mag-asawa pagdating dito sa Pilipinas. That's been a problem especially to diplomats, halimbawa, who are gay. Gay diplomats sila from other countries, they are married pero pagdating dito sa Pilipinas, 'yung kanilang partner ay nililista lamang bilang house help. So medyo degrading 'yun for the diplomats.

HOWIE: So hindi kinikilala ng Philippine government 'yung married same-sex couples kahit legally married sila sa ibang bansa, pagdating dito, they're considered unmarried?

VINCE: Yes. They were tagged as house help or household helpers ng kanilang mga pamilya.

HOWIE: Para magkaroon lang ng diplomatic cover.

VINCE: Yes.

HOWIE: Kasi hindi puwedeng partner. Walang partner status.

VINCE: Yes po. Kaya rin, I think either the DFA or the DOJ has already made some amendments to their policies on this, especially for diplomats alone. Pero para sa mga non-diplomat, of course, kapag kayo ay mag-asawa sa ibang bansa, 'pag dumating kayo sa Pilipinas, mag-best friends na lang kayo.

HOWIE: But officially, nakalista ka sa embassy as household staff or household help?

VINCE: Yes.

HOWIE: Wow. That's…

VINCE: I think that's what happened. I remember this. This was a lesson sa akin po when I was in college by our gender and politics professor. Igi-give ko naman po sa DFA. I think there have been efforts to amend their policies to address this concern that has been raised by the diplomats.

HOWIE: Okay. So there are about 30 countries in the world na may same-sex marriage. How long do you think it will take for the Philippines to legalize same-sex marriage?

VINCE: 'Yan po ang mahirap sagutin kasi kung RH bill nga, tumagal nang pagkatagal-tagal, ngayon SOGIE Equality Bill. But I'm very hopeful that the stars are aligning for the SOGIE Equality Bill to pass this 19th Congress. 'Yung una-una po ay dahil, number one, nag-unite ang mga LGBT group ngayon from different sectors and we will be launching the equality alliance. This will be the biggest alliance of advocates for the SOGIE Equality Bill.

Second, the international community is also backing us up. There will be 20 plus embassies attending Pride and they all support the passage of the SOGIE Equality Bill.

And third, I think with the new Senate leadership, there will be a greater chance for the SOGIE Equality Bill to at least be given a chance sa plenary na sana ay mapag-usapan naman siya at ma-discuss ulit 'yung mga kung mayroon man silang mga concern or reservation.

Pagdating po sa marriage equality, it might take maybe longer. But I think discussions about marriage equality should already begin next Congress.

ISSUES ON THE SOGIE EQUALITY BILL

HOWIE: So what's the issue blocking or what are the issues blocking the SOGIE Equality Bill?

VINCE: Mainly po ay myths. 'Yung nabanggit po natin kanina, akala nila ay tungkol siya sa marriage equality. It's not. Of course, we recognize that there are people who support the LGBTQ+ community but might not be in favor of marriage equality yet.

Nandu'n din po 'yung mga fear halimbawa na akala po nila kapag nagkaroon ng SOGIE Equality Bill, ang mga bakla ay magiging super special elite class. Hindi po. SOGIE Equality Bill will just prevent discrimination from happening. Thereby, equalizing opportunities.

Pangatlo, nandiyan din po 'yung mga fear na queer people daw or LGBT people will take up space doon sa mga espasyo na hindi naman sila dapat nandoon. Pero magandang itanong: ano ba 'yung mga espasyong ito? Kasi baka naman pala these spaces are denied to LGBT people in the first place because discrimination is not a human right. I think that's a basic tenet of the SOGIE Equality Bill. Discrimination in whatever form is not a basic human right. It's not a human right.

Marami rin po nagsasabi na this is anti-religion. Marami nagsasabi na this is anti-religion. However, there are religious groups, faith-based networks, who have already shown support to the SOGIE Equality Bill. You have the Iglesia Filipina Independiente, 'yung Aglipayan Church, nandiyan din ang Open Table MCC, and lately, in a forum we attended, organized by the UP GLPP, Gender Law and Policy Program, the CBCP attended. The Catholic Bishops Churches of the Philippines attended. And they said they are supportive of the SOGIE Equality Bill, of the idea that no people should be discriminated. And I think that's what matters.

HOWIE: Yeah. Well, speaking of which, Vince, 'no, we know that Pope Francis recently formally approved blessing by Catholic priests of same-sex couples. Not marrying them in church yet but blessing. And Pope Francis has been defending this kasi siyempre there's a segment of the Catholic Church na parang talagang vehemently opposing that.

Ang sagot ni Pope Francis recently, nabasa ko lang kanina, sabi niya, "Nobody gets scandalized if I give my blessings to a businessman who exploits people. And this is a very great sin. But they get scandalized if I give my blessing to a homosexual." Sinabi niya roon sa isang interview.

So this is considered already a shift for the Catholic Church because, of course, we know traditionally, the Catholic hierarchy has condemned LGBT. You know, it's immoral, it's a sin, et cetera. But now, Pope Francis seems to have a more inclusive approach to the community even if it's not, full-blown, sanctifying same-sex marriage.

So how significant is this, itong pagbibigay ng blessing ng mga pari sa same-sex couples? Is this now becoming common in the Philippines?

VINCE: We consider this a win, actually, Sir Howie. Maraming nagsasabi na blessing lang naman, 'no? But it's still a blessing. It's a symbolic gesture from the Catholic Church to welcome LGBTQ+ Catholics. Because there are LGBTQ+ Catholics. And I think that's a good recognition.

Nabanggit din po 'yan actually ng CBCP doon sa forum that I was talking about. Sinabi nila, "Kung ang Simbahan nga ay kayang mag-bless ng mga bagay, ng mga hayop, bakit ipagkakait natin ang blessing na ito para sa LGBTQ+ individuals?"

This is recognition that queer people have always been part of religion, religious activities. Itanggi man natin pero ang mga bakla nag-aayos ng mga Poon, ang mga bakla ang nag-aayos ng mga activity sa barangay kapag may padasal, ang mga bakla ang nagce-celebrate ng ilan sa mga religious activity din ng Simbahan.

Bahagi talaga ng pamayanan at ng Simbahan ang mga bakla. And I think this is, again, a shift towards acceptance. Hindi man siya full acceptance siguro for many LGBT advocates but I consider this a win for the LGBTQ+ community and for the Philippines in general. This is after all an era of healing.

HOWIE: And if you consider that it's the Catholic Church who influences a lot of the political opposition to progress on LGBT issues, you know, including the SOGIE Bill and marriage equality. So it's actually a step forward towards accomplishing those, wouldn't you think?

Kasi kung 'yung mga pulitiko na nag-o-oppose diyan o 'yung mga community o mga segment ng population na nag-o-oppose diyan sa mga ganyang social legislation ay nag-o-oppose dahil nga sa kanilang Catholic beliefs or religious beliefs, 'pag ganu'n na 'yung naging attitude ng simbahan ay maaaring lumuwag din 'yung opposition, wouldn't you say?

VINCE: Hopefully po. However, we also noticed na sometimes it's not the Catholics who really actively oppose but religious fundamentalists. Often mga extreme evangelical, 'no? Actually po maraming LGBT advocates are proud Catholics themselves. And they really love Pope Francis for his pronouncements. It's something that we admire because it preaches love, something that all religions should be founded on, and not hate. Because discrimination is also not a religious right.

HOWIE: But Catholics comprise the vast majority of Filipinos, 'no? Itong sinasabi mong the strongest opposition comes from itong mga religious fundamentalist na I suppose these are not Catholics or strictly or traditional Catholics, 'no? They're not close to being a majority.

And yet sinasabi mo, they're leading the opposition or they're providing the strongest opposition to this kind of social policy. So ang lakas nila, considering they're not really close to even the plurality or majority of the population.

VINCE: I agree po. Kaya rin based doon sa research namin na kung aabot man sa period of voting ang SOGIE Equality Bill, we will win in both chambers of Congress. And we have proven that in the 12th and 17th Congress, the SOGIE Equality Bill passed third and final reading in the House of Representatives.

However, 'yun nga po, mayroon at mayroon talaga sa Senado na magga-grandstand at kayang i-delay ang bill because of their powers. So 'yun ang pinakamalaki naming balakid. That's why kung pagbibigyan lang ng chance na i-hear siya sa plenary at i-flesh out ang debate, dahil for sure we have already addressed the concerns for 24 years.

We've integrated already the suggestions of the opponents and those that have reservations to it. Pagbotohan lang. And of course, we hope that our legislators say yes to equality.

PRIDE MONTH

HOWIE: Okay. So it's Pride Month and you're National Convener of Pride PH and one of the organizers of Pride activities. So anong magaganap sa buwan na ito?

VINCE: Okay po. We're excited because last year we made history as the biggest Pride march in Southeast Asia with 110,000 attendees. This year, we're expecting double the fun and double the everything, from the sign-ups ng volunteers, sa marchers, sa partners namin, everything doubled. That's why we're also expecting another historic event for the LGBTQ+ community this year with the Love Laban to Everyone Pride PH Festival at the Quezon Memorial Circle on June 22.

Darating po ang Amsterdam Rainbow Dress. It's a sign of love from the international community. And it's also a reflection of the Quezon City being a safe haven to LGBTQ+ individuals. We will also have a Pride March. Two Pride Marches actually that will eventually converge in the Quezon Memorial Circle. We also have Pride Expo for organizations, merchants, LGBT-owned businesses, NGOs and allied NGOs.

HOWIE: Can I just interrupt, Vince? You mentioned that the Quezon City is a safe haven for the LGBT community. Bakit sinasabi mo 'yan na Quezon City in particular? Why are you singling them out as being a safe haven for your community?

VINCE: Well, it's notable that Quezon City passed the first anti-discrimination ordinance in the country. I think that's in 2003. And now, it's a lot. Actually, 37% of the Philippine population now reside in LGUs with anti-discrimination ordinances. So napakalaking bahagi po nu'n doon sa campaign natin for equality that more and more local government units are supporting the fight for equality.

And Quezon City, we have Mayor Joy Belmonte na who's very supportive of LGBTQ+ rights from the Right to Care Card, anti-discrimination ordinances, trans health guidelines. And this year, mayroon din pong graduation rights, where transgender people will be allowed to graduate na hindi ginugupitan 'yung kanilang mga buhok o kaya naa-affirm nila 'yung kanilang gender identity.

HOWIE: So marami 'tong mga activity na binanggit mo sa Quezon City igaganap. Nabanggit mo 'yung Quezon City Circle, et cetera. Mayroon bang mga ibang lungsod na may similar activities? Are you hearing about other places na may mga Pride March, may mga celebration din?

VINCE: Yes po. In Pride PH, we actually have 11 Pride events that will happen simultaneously on June 22. And that's only on June 22. Actually po, mayroon din mga event or Pride events sa buong buwan ng June. And sometimes hindi pa nga po June.

Mayroon po sa Northern Luzon Pride sa Baguio City, Quirino Pride, Romblon Pride, Albay Pride, Iloilo Pride, Cebu City Pride, Catarman Pride in Northern Samar, Magsaysay Pride in Misamis Oriental, Iligan City Pride, Cagayan de Oro Pride, and CARAGA Pride. Ito po 'yung mga kasabay natin na magpa-Pride this June 22.

HOWIE: I'm curious, are there Pride activities in Muslim Mindanao?

VINCE: I think po mayroong attempts ang Mindanao Pride na contingent. Not necessarily Muslim Mindanao. I think mayroon pong nag-attempt before sa Zamboanga. I'm not sure po kung kasama sila sa Pride this year.

HOWIE: Okay. Gusto ko lang magpasalamat sa iyong oras, sa insights, at sa iyong serbisyo sa lipunan, Vince Liban, national convener of Pride PH. Mabuhay ka.

VINCE: Maraming salamat po and thank you for this opportunity. Again, we leave you with a message na we hope you could support the fight for equality para sa ating mga pamilya at sa mga susunod pang henerasyon. Dahil chaka ang discrimination at mas happy 'pag may equality. Maraming salamat po.