Carlos Yulo also had to do mental gymnastics —psychologist Anna Tuazon

Many can relate to the Yulo family drama. Dr. Anna Tuazon explains some of the cultural values at play such as “balato,” “utang na loob,” parental fealty, and the pressures of being the family breadwinner.

She shares what she has advised her own patients — the importance of listening to each other, respecting the choices of your children (“let them dream”), and knowing the boundaries of “utang na loob” (shouldn’t be transactional or demanded).

Doc Anna reminds us that Carlos Yulo reached the pinnacle of his sport despite the distractions and disadvantages. To do that required “mental gymnastics” and an inner strength.

HOWIE: Magandang araw, podmates. Howie Severino muli na nagpapaalala na nakakatalino ang mahabang attention span.

Carlos Yulo, the Philippines' double gold medalist at the Paris Olympics, is the man of the moment bringing glory to the nation. But the glory has been mixed with a lot of gory details about family conflict.

Conflict naman and disagreement are no stranger to nearly all families. No one is immune. But Carlos and his mom and girlfriend have been embroiled in something that is very high profile and everyone can't help but talk about it and pay attention.

So our guest today is a clinical psychologist who will try to put whatever family dramas we're reading about and watching in context and perhaps help us understand our own family relationships. Dr. Anna Tuazon has her own podcast and writes a newspaper column. Magandang araw sa 'yo, Dr. Anna Tuazon.

DOC ANNA: Magandang araw, Howie.

HOWIE: First, Doc, congratulations. I know you have a baby boy, Pablo, your firstborn. Nine months na ngayon, 'no?

DOC ANNA: Yes, nine months. Makulit na, malikot.

HOWIE: Okay, Doc, you know, I'm a parent myself. I know becoming a parent changes everyone. But has it also changed the way you do your job and the way you approach patients? How has it affected you as a professional?

DOC ANNA: It definitely changed me. I definitely have more compassion now for parents. Naintindihan ko na that there are certain expectations we have of parents na minsan medyo mahirap abutin, mahirap makamit. And I realize how very human moms can be, personally speaking. Our patience are limited. We have fears. May mga anxiety tayo.

So I'd like to think I gained more compassion to the point that I actually wrote about it in my column, na parang I felt kind of bad now for how I was advising some parents in the past kasi feeling ko nagkulang. Medyo nagkulang 'yung compassion na parang madaling sabihin kung ano 'yung dapat gawin when in reality, 'di ba, it's much more complicated talaga in real life.

HOWIE: I'm sure you knew even before becoming a parent that parenting is hard, 'di ba? But now that you're a parent, have you concluded it's even harder than you thought? Ano bang... Paano ba nagbago 'yung pananaw mo roon?

DOC ANNA: In a way, definitely, 'di ba, my training really helped. Pagdating sa mga mental health stuff, development, parang hindi ako masyadong takot doon. Like alam ko na what I need to do with my baby. Pero siguro the other stuff that I'm not very familiar with, 'di ba, the physical, the medical stuff, the nutrition. So 'yun talaga, 'yung nagbago.

And I think what I didn't realize was how relentless it is to be a parent. 'Di ba, it never turns off. And you have grown-up children and 'di ba, it's never done. You never have a day off. So 'yung, what it means to have something that's forever, that's relentless, that's so permanent, I think that's something I wasn't really anticipating at the very visceral level.

HOWIE: Well, you know, so you're a mother and there is a mother in the news. A mother of a much older child, of course. But I am talking, of course, about the Carlos Yulo family drama which has unfolded on social media, then on television, et cetera amidst, you know, one of the biggest sporting triumphs in Philippine history, 'di ba? So lumaban doon sa mga medalya ni Yulo 'yung balita, bali-balita tungkol sa pamilya niya.

Before I ask you anything specific, what's your general take on it?

DOC ANNA: One, it's, you know, it's sad all around. Nobody really wins. And I think that 'yun 'yung problema, I think, now that it's become so public. It's become something like people are taking sides, 'di ba, parang Team This and Team That. And someone's saying, "Oh, ito siya ang tama, siya ang mali." And in a family, hindi talaga 'yun helpful, actually.

Now, in a family therapy context, in a couples therapy context, 'no, starting with the, 'di ba, that stance, "Ako ang tama, siya ang mali," it's not helpful. It hurts the family.

HOWIE: When you were reading about this, thinking about it, how common is this? I mean, napaisip ka ba tungkol sa mga pasyente mo? I mean, how unique or common...

DOC ANNA: Yes.

HOWIE: ...is their situation? Aside from the fact that he's a world-class athlete, let's set that aside itong, basically, in case, you know, some listeners just came from Mars and don't know what's going on, 'no?

A lot of it is about money, 'di ba? Carlos Yulo did not grow up wealthy, 'no? And you assume that, you know, the family still has a lot of needs, 'no? And all of a sudden Carlos has became the most successful member of the family, both in sports and financially.

So may fair expectation ba 'yung pamilya na magse-share siya? And what attitudes should both sides be taking?

DOC ANNA: So 'yung unang tanong mo, Howie, 'di ba, Is this more common than we think? And I think, in a way, 'pag meron talagang nag-viral, may nag-capture ng imagination ng mga Pinoy na personal story, it's because nagre-resonate sa kanila. So not just among my clients, but among my friends, 'di ba? And among the guests of our show, actually. Ang dami riyan nu'ng burdens of being expected to be a breadwinner. So 'yun 'yun, 'di ba?

Sabi mo nga parang, mayroong breadwinner culture tayo. Mayroon din tayong balato culture, 'di ba? So if you come into some money, nanalo ka ng lotto or umangat ka sa buhay, dapat isama mo lahat. So may mga ganoong expectations.

At the same time, 'di ba, parang, at least on my end, 'yung mga narinig ko, 'yung burden nga, na parang "Teka, to what extent?" 'Di ba, okay lang naman umangat tayong lahat, pero kung ako mismo na ang nadedehado, maybe ako na 'yung naloloko, 'di ba? Medyo, baka nagkakaroon ng question ng respect and honesty. Parang, hanggang saan? Hanggang saan tayo, 'di ba, magiging generous as a breadwinner?

HOWIE: Some people have said that there's also a class issue here because a lot of world-class athletes from the Philippines or even just very good athletes from the Philippines come from well-off families, 'no? Kasi their families were able to afford nutrition, good coaching, good schools, overseas competition, and all of that, 'no?

So it would be, you know, this kind of drama may not have occurred if he had belonged to a middle-class or upper-class family. I don't know. To what extent does that make any sense? Or is this something much more universal than that?

DOC ANNA: Yeah. Actually, narinig ko na 'yung parang argument, e. Na parang the expectation nga differ siyempre sa pangangailangan. Kasi kung hindi na kailangan ng pamilya, 'di ba, the expectation isn't so set or solid. But I think it's doing a disservice though. 'Di ba? To put it, to put all that, you know, all that set of behaviors and set of interactions in a relationship dahil lang sa social class or dahil lang sa socioeconomic status.

Kasi hindi naman, 'di ba, hindi naman porke mahirap ka, hindi na kayo nag-uusap nang matino. Hindi na kayo nagpapaalam sa isa't isa, 'di ba? You're not, hindi porke mahirap ka, hindi na kayo nag-uusap about, "Okay, paano natin ito gagawin?" 'Di ba? How are we going to do this?

If anything, 'di ba, as I said earlier, parang, I don't want to analyze but at the very core of it, 'di ba, mayroong lack of communication ang nangyari. 'Yun na 'yun. To put it, 'di ba, very, very mildly, ang problema talaga hindi nag-usap nang matino. So hindi naman 'yun, 'di ba, hindi 'yun mahirap, para sa mahirap.

Parang, nag-uusap naman, actually. If anything, sometimes, ang mga poorer family, 'di ba, they have to problem-solve together. 'Di ba? Hindi naman necessarily mag-isa. So I don't want to bank it too much on that. Although, obviously, it's a factor. Kasi it's a factor na, okay, nag-outweigh, e, kailangan na talaga. 'Di ba? Kailangan talaga, kailangan ng pamilya. So factor din siya.

Pero, I, well, at least, from what I read, in the news, the issue wasn't about "Do we give money or not?" 'Di ba, ang issue, at least, Caloy said in his own parang direct statement, ang issue niya, hindi nagpaalam. So again, for me, again, from a family therapy lens, hindi nag-communicate kaya nagkaka-misunderstanding.

HOWIE: And, of course, the mother denied that as well, just to give the other side. So we don't really know. But obviously, may communication problem because kumbaga, 'yung dirty laundry ng pamilya lumabas sa social media kaya naging balita. 'Di ba? Kasi kung sumunod lang doon sa advice mo na mag-usap na lang sa, you know, privately, as a family, et cetera, hindi na kailangan ibulgar sa buong mundo, we wouldn't even be talking about it right now. And they might even have, a happier family life. 'Di ba?

Pero, I just want to go back to this, itong obligation sa pamilya. I mean, one of the comments that I saw, ang daming nagkokomentaryo tungkol dito. Apparently, 'yung sabi mo nga, it resonates with a lot of people. You know, because everyone's part of a family. 'Yung sabi ng isa ay, you know, he started talking about his own burdens. And sabi niya, you know, "It's so tiring being my parents' retirement plan."

You know, and so this is someone who is a professional, young professional with his own dreams, et cetera. But he's so bogged down with supporting his parents, his younger siblings. Ang laki ng pressure sa kaniya. He can't take a vacation. He has to do all this overtime. So what do you think of, you know, sometimes this attitude? Kasi you hear this, kaya lumaki 'yung population ng Pilipinas because there are a lot of families who look at their children as their retirement plan, supposedly.

I don't know if that's a fair thing to say right now. But I saw that on Facebook, 'no? And parang investment. 'Yun ang investment. You know, some people invest in land, some people invest in, you know, stock or whatever. There are other people who invest in children. So they have many children because they know that when they grow up, I even hear this from wealthy people, 'di ba, "Mabuti na lang, you know, naging walo 'yung anak ko." And it's beyond money. It's also about time spent with them as elderly, et cetera.

But 'yung ganu'n, is that a cultural thing among Filipinos having that burden, that expectation? And how common is that? Na parang 'yung feeling na 'yun, na 'yung anak na pinaaral, nu'ng nagtatrabaho na, feeling niya siya 'yung retirement plan ng magulang.

DOC ANNA: So maraming cultural values that's hitting on this. One is utang na loob. 'Di ba, the culture of utang na loob. And, of course, the bigger value na talagang maka-pamilya talaga tayong mga Pilipino. We value our family. Some scholars would say, "Hindi naman talaga tayo collectivistic, tribalistic tayo." 'Di ba, we protect our family. Maybe not so much our countrymen. But we do protect. We're fiercely protective of our family.

So kung pinagsama mo 'yung value of family and utang na loob, that's when potential problems can come. Pero actually, and I don't know how much you wanna get into this, kasi utang na loob as a core value isn't inherently toxic, Howie. Hindi naman siya inherently problematic. Utang na loob as an indigenous value is actually, it means, hindi lang ito transaction. And that is exactly what retirement plan thinking is. "This is a transaction. I invested in you, right? And I need my payout. I need my payback at the end." So it's a very transactional relationship.

Ang totoong utang na loob as part of Filipino values is that this is not merely a transaction. This is a relationship. So 'yung utang na loob, so kunwari, tinulungan mo ako, Howie. Tinulungan mo ako in a time of need. Hindi lang ito na, "Oh, may utang na loob ako, babayaran ko ito one time." Kasi transaction, e. Kung anong itinulong mo sa akin, 'yun ang ibabalik ko sa 'yo.

But utang na loob means "Because you helped me, kapuwa na tayo. This is now a valued relationship of mine. And I will treat you like family." 'Di ba, parang ganu'n. So ako, I get really sad as a psychologist, sikolohiyang Pilipino, na parang nadi-distort ang utang na loob. Utang na loob has become such a bad word, especially for young people now. Kasi ang nangyari, it became, parang na-distort siya into something transactional. "Pinalaki kita. So now alagaan mo ako in my later years." But that's not really what utang na loob is.

I can go deeper into that. Baka masyadong geeky na. So 'yun. 'Yun 'yung utang na loob. And so, I hope people really understand what that means. Utang na loob is not something demanded. Just like respect in a way, right? It is something that is forged through trust, through trust and a bond.

Now, 'yung maka-pamilya, siyempre 'yung idea is, 'di ba, we like people who are family-oriented. Alam natin 'yan. 'Pag public person ka, 'di ba, kailangan talaga family-oriented ka. So unfortunately, 'yun na nga, if you combine 'yung parang medyo transactional na utang na loob with family-orientedness, parang equals, 'di ba, that plus that equals, ibigay mo lahat sa pamilya mo. Ibigay mo lahat.

I'm sure nakita mo ito, Howie, 'di ba, maraming nagko-quote "Honor thy mother and thy father" in this conversation. So nagkaroon pa ng religious value to it. But really that's not how it's supposed to be. 'Di ba, family, hindi porke, "Parang mabait lang akong anak dahil binibigyan kita ng pera." Hindi rin maganda 'yun, 'di ba? Mayroong ibang ways.

There should be many, many other ways we could show our love, our respect. So 'yun 'yun, e. I know I got really into the values.

Pero 'yung... So 'yung sa breadwinner, sinasabi ko nga sa mga client ko who are burdened by that, it's a big burden, 'di ba? Ikaw ang responsible. And the thing is 'pag bata pa, 'yung sinasabi ko sa mga magulang, 'pag bata pa sila, allow them to dream. Give them a way to live out those dreams. Hindi 'yung, 'di ba, may mga ibang pamilya naririnig ko na ayaw nilang mag-asawa 'yung anak. Kasi, 'di ba, "'Pag umalis ka na, 'yung asawa mo na 'yung paggagastusan mo, hindi na kami. 'Pag umalis ka sa bahay, may paggagastusan mo na 'yung bahay mo. Hindi 'yung sa amin." 'Yung ganu'n. So hindi naman dapat.

So it should be where, 'di ba, the child of his own volition. 'Di ba? Because you want to honor your mother and your father, you want to care for them. And then the parents don't demand that care but actually sana ang umiigting is how much care they want to give each other. And how much... Instead of how much care they want to receive from each other.

HOWIE: Well, thank you. That's a good perspective.

So would you advise parents to just make sure that in their old age as much as possible, nakapag-ipon sila? I mean, dapat walang assumptions na aalagaan sila ng mga anak nila? You know, make sure that you can cover your medical expenses?

Kasi may mga tao na kahit may kaya, you know, may assumptions sila na aalagaan naman sila ng mga anak nila. Kaya, you know, gagastusin nila 'yung, you know, on experience. Magbabakasyon nang grande kasi marami naman silang anak. So ano 'yung ano, how do you balance that?

Okay, may itinuro kang values sa mga anak mo. You know, utang na loob, you know, honor thy father and mother, et cetera. But at the same time, you also want to allow them to dream, right? So would you advise the parents in those situations? I mean, just make sure that, you know, as much as possible, independent kayo in your old age?

DOC ANNA: Yeah. So this is where iko-contradict ko sarili ko, Howie. Kasi now this is where the socioeconomic status comes in. So I think, baka roon umaalma 'yung mga tao kasi 'pag sinabing, "Ay, mag-ipon ka lang. Make sure you have medical insurance, health insurance," in this country, that's so expensive if you don't have a company that's paying for that. So siguro hindi lang ganu'n kasimple. Of course, if may means, 'di ba? Kung kayang mag-ipon for yourself, you know, to set up that post-retirement life for you, set aside for health. Kung kaya 'yun, please do. Please do. That is another gift you can give to your children.

Now, kung hindi naman kaya talaga, 'di ba? It's not like they're not trying. Nobody wants to not have money. So I'm sure they're trying their best, 'no, to be financially secure. 'Pag hindi kaya, at the very least, 'yung false dichotomy kasi, Howie, e, 'di ba, na 'pag tutulungan mo ang pamilya mo, hindi mo na makakamit ang pangarap mo.

Ang dami kong pasyente, Howie, ganu'n mag-isip. "I have to give up my dreams to help my family." And minsan, Howie, hindi sila mahirap, ha, 'di ba? It doesn't have to be one or the other. So kung ako ngayon, as a new mom, if ever my son, you know, helps me, I wanna make sure it's not at his expense. So hindi ako ang magsasara ng pinto para sa kaniya.

So kung kailangan man tumulong at any point, 'di ba, parang, hala, teka, medyo gipit, gipit sa funds, gipit sa, you know, sa rent, sa utilities, sige, tulong ka, anak. And, you make sure, "Uy, anak, make sure may naiipon ka para sa sarili mo." And then make sure, kung adult na sila, 'di ba, if they want to carve out, you know, seek their own spouse, start their own families, that we don't get in the way.

I mean, not to say wala tayong pakialam. Pero, 'di ba, generally, the idea, the principle of them having a life shouldn't be threatening to the parents. 'Yun lang.

So 'pag medyo nate-threaten ang parents, "Uy, teka, nagkakabuhay siya na hindi ako kasama or hindi ako 'yung nasa sentro," medyo as parents, mag-reflect tayo. "Teka, teka. Baka medyo hindi, masyado nang tight ang kapit natin."

Kasi, actually, 'di ba, ano bang magiging final grade natin as parents? 'Di ba? Kung if they can live the life that they want, be good people, be decent people. 'Di ba? And to have the life that they want. Ayaw natin na sila naghirap, tapos, 'di ba, dahil sa atin. I think no parent wants that anyway, regardless.

HOWIE: Yeah, well, and sometimes the issue is not even money. It's like, okay, ipapamana mo 'yung family business. But kahit gustong maging painter or, you know, journalist or whatever, 'yung anak, e, may negosyo 'yung pamilya, whether sa sari-sari store or a gasoline station or a big company, para may expectation na "Ito 'yung pamana ko sa 'yo. You know, this is a family legacy. You have to take care."

Ang laki ng guilt trip, no? At least sa mga kilala ko, 'pag hindi nila tinupad 'yung ganu'ng klaseng expectation, 'no? I mean, kahit, okay, the parents don't need. They're financially independent pero iba naman 'yung utang na loob pressure on the kids. Nasa ibang level. It's that similar, right?

DOC ANNA: Definitely. Parang hindi naman, hindi breadwinner necessarily, pero 'di ba, parang "Continue my legacy." 'Di ba? Parang continue either the family business or the family way of life. I've heard of that as well. And actually, I commend the parents who realize, "Wait, my dream, 'di ba, it's okay if my dream isn't their dream." 'Di ba? Dream n'yo 'yung negosyo na 'yun. Dream n'yo 'yung clinic na 'yun. Kung ano man 'yung practice na ipapamana n'yo. Actually, doon na lang ako natuwa. Parang, "Oh, kahit nanay ako, talagang pro-child pa rin ako, at least."

Yeah. You have to realize your dreams are not necessarily your children's dreams. If they happen to coincide, that's great, that's fantastic, mas madali, mas simple ang buhay. Now, if your child wants to explore something that you're not familiar with, I say let them. As long as, 'di ba, parang, you know, wala namang red flags, wala namang safety risks, et cetera.

And then, I've had to advise some people with that, 'yung may family business, et cetera. And I say, okay, maybe it's time to look at, 'di ba, professional managers, people who are actually competent. I'm sure there are very many competent people in your business. Ano 'yun, malaking, 'di ba, malaking transition 'yan sa mindset kung sa business naman.

HOWIE: Okay. Balikan ko lang itong si Carlos Yulo. Because we haven't talked about the other person in this drama. It's not just the son and the mother. There's a girlfriend, a partner na naging... she's become controversial probably without even wanting to be. Okay. Anong take mo ru'n? What's your reaction to her role in all of this?

DOC ANNA: Siguro, to be honest, ang first reaction ko, why is she the issue? Because I don't understand why, sabi mo nga, why she has become as infamous as she is. Kasi, o naku, sana hindi ako ma-cancel dito, Howie, pero objectively, parang wala na rin nakitang talagang masama. Maybe palaban and things like that. So okay.

What I'm seeing is, sabi mo nga, sabi ko, 'yung miscommunication nila for one... On the one side, someone is saying this is a money issue. 'Di ba? This is a transparency issue, actually. Not a money issue. This is a transparency issue. 'Yung sabi nila, "No, it's a girlfriend issue. It has nothing to do with the money. It's the girlfriend." So wala tayo roon, e. Hindi natin alam kung ano talagang nangyayari. Hindi natin alam talaga 'yung konteksto.

Pero, at least, from that, 'yung ganu'n lang, alam natin, "Ah, they're fighting different battles, kaya walang nananalo at walang resolution." 'Di ba? Parang kunwari nagwewelga siya sa Manila si Mommy, si Carlos Yulo naman nasa Quezon Memorial Circle, nagwewelga. So hindi sila nag-uusap. Parang, 'di ba? They're fighting different battles. So girlfriends and mother-in-laws.

HOWIE: Well, 'yun na nga, okay. Kasi that situation resonated in a different way, 'no? Wala riyan 'yung parental expectations, et cetera. Ano 'yan, that's also a common situation for a lot of families. 'Yung, in a way, tension between girlfriends and mothers, wives and mothers of the husband, et cetera. Minsan may competition, may jealousy. 'Di ba? I mean, I've seen this play out in a lot of different ways.

So you see family situations like that, right? And what do you usually advise?

DOC ANNA: So wala naman pang inherently you should always side with this one. Walang ganu'n. Kasi it really, really depends on context.

In fact, parang tinatanong din ng friend ko, kung ikaw 'yan, 'di ba, parang you were asked to choose between a parent and your partner, who would you choose? Sabi ko, "Ay, kung sino 'yung nagtanong." Sabi ko, kung sino 'yung nag-ultimatum sa akin, 'di ba? Hindi ko... 'Yun ang ima-minus points ko. Kasi I think that's the thing. Again, treating it from a family perspective, it shouldn't be someone that forces you to choose one or the other. Parang Solomon's baby 'to, 'no, Howie, if you think about it, parang, 'di ba? Who says, you have to choose, me or her, 'di ba? It's a version of that.

And then someone says, "Wait. I don't want you to have to choose." So actually, if you get a person like that, 'di ba? I don't want you to have to choose, I want you to have them all. I want you to have us all. That's a keeper. 'Di ba? 'Yun ang keeper. And in a way, I know we have concerns as parents, and we want what's best for our children. Pero 'yung giving ultimatums or kind of saying, "Ah, kung nandiyan kayo, hindi kita kakausapin."

I don't actually know what's going on with the family, per se. Pero kung nagbigay ka ng parang hard line, 'di ba? "Hiwalayan mo 'yan. Or hindi ko siya type. Hindi ko siya type." Eh, type siya ng anak mo, e. So actually, ang mangyayari, 'di ba, mapapalayo siya sa 'yo.

So what I advise parents, Howie, no matter... with this issue and other issues, is always choose the side where he will continue to listen to you. 'Di ba? Always choose the route na mayroon ka pa ring influence sa kaniya, na you're still someone he trusts.

Kaya actually my own parents, you know, they would admit to me once relationships are over, "Oh, you know, ayaw namin magsalita, e, kasi, 'di ba, alam namin 'pag nagsalita kami ng negative about your boyfriend, mamasamain mo." 'Yun. So dapat may kaunting, parang isipin mo, "Teka lang, is this worth it? Kasi right now, in love na in love pa, e, guguluhin ko ba?"

"If I really have concerns, I want to still be within that circle of trust ng anak ko. Para if something does happen and my son gets hurt, right, or my son is on the verge of getting hurt, nandiyan ako na para sumalo."

HOWIE: Okay. But as you know, most parents naman are well-intentioned.

DOC ANNA: Over.

HOWIE: And sometimes 'yung perception nila is the partner is not good for their child, 'di ba, could even be, could even be life threatening. I mean, minsan ganu'n ang perception 'di ba, lalo na 'pag anak mo 'yung babae, right? You know, there's a distrust. I mean, where do you draw the line?

I mean, yeah, I understand where you're coming from na, you know, ayaw mo masyadong makialam because that's the love life of your child and that should be their decision, et cetera. But at the same time, as a parent, may natural instinct ka to protect your offspring and may threat perception ka, e, 'di ba? How do you communicate that?

DOC ANNA: Ako, when I imagine ito, like, oh, kung nangyari sa akin 'yun and I really don't like who Pablo is seeing, 'di ba, parang naisip ko, gusto ko siyang tanungin, "Oh anak, what do you like about her?" 'Di ba, parang I wanna be in... Kasi, Howie, 'yun talaga ako, e. I wanna be in on the inside. I don't wanna risk being on the outside, kasi lalo na kung may threat.

E, tapos parang boy who cried wolf 'yan, 'di ba? Kung masyadong kang mabilis. So ako, I really, you know, I would ask my son, parang, "Oh, tell me what you like about her." 'Di ba kasi baka naman mayroon akong hindi nakikita. And at the same time, makikita ko, bakit attached na attached siya despite all these red flags, 'di ba? And then, sort of, in a way, parang in a way, nasa palaki 'yan, e, 'di ba?

Parang ano bang magandang partner? So actually, in general, I encourage parents to talk to their kids, even young kids kasi they know what a boyfriend is, they know what dating is, to say, you know, how can you be a good boyfriend, girlfriend? How do you know they're a good boyfriend, girlfriend to you?

So, in other words, hindi ka magre-react 'pag nandiyan na. Dapat before, before pa nagka-girlfriend, before nagka-boyfriend, medyo na-assess mo na kung well-placed ba 'yung values.

Nakakakita ba ng red flags 'yung anak mo? Kasi kung ikaw lang nakakakita, tapos siya hindi niya nakita, parang may nawala again sa communication. Now, of course, this is when wala namang labag sa batas.

If they're, "Oh my God, drug dealer 'yan o kaya mamamatay-tao 'yan, oh my God, binubugbog 'yung anak ko," iba 'yun, right, if there are actually legit safety issues.

But barring that, kung medyo personality differences lang, some value differences na hindi naman ganu'n ka, hindi naman illegal values 'yung gusto ng isa, mas okay nang alamin mo, intindihin mo, parang before you try to make an intervention.

And you can, you can make an intervention, 'di ba, sa child mo. Before you make an intervention, you better really, really, really understand bakit mahal na mahal ng anak ko ito. Kasi 'pag hindi mo pa naiintindihan, and you attempt an intervention, ano sasabihin ng anak? "You don't understand. You don't know her." Eh, di wala. Talo ka. So para sa akin, it's really just about being pragmatic and effective.

HOWIE: Going back to Carlos Yulo, Yulo's case. I mean, putting his family situation in a more positive light, despite the drama and the stress, I'm sure he was under a lot of stress because of this. he still won two golds, 'no? And then, he also had a problem with his coach, he had, you know, there were financial issues, et cetera.

I mean, so many people are amazed that parang, you know, parang nakiki-gym lang siya doon sa ibang athletes. I mean, he was really disadvantaged in this, the lead-up to the Olympics, 'no? And to a great extent, he was crediting his girlfriend.

DOC ANNA: Yeah.

HOWIE: Because you need to be strong to achieve, to achieve anything that great. I mean, you have to be mentally strong, psychologically, you know, very stable, and not just physically, you know. So that's a credit to him, 'di ba? And he was able to compartmentalize and, but I don't know, I mean, what's your take on that? I mean, is it possible to compartmentalize?

I mean, mayroon kang malaking family issue and then, you're in the middle of this quest na dapat single-minded ka, but there's all this noise and distraction. Obviously, Carlos proved that hindi naging balakid 'yun. Of course, he also had, he was also probably very lucky, et cetera. But where should the credit go? To Carlos? To his girlfriend? To his coaching? Ano ba ang, what's your reading on that?

DOC ANNA: Thank you for asking that kasi actually, in all this sort of drama that's out there, parang sabi ko, parang people are assuming walang agency si Carlo, you know, si Caloy, for himself, right? Like he didn't make, you know, his own choices, that he was being influenced one way or the other. And for me, I mean, oh my gosh, the biggest credit should be him. He's the one that did all that. He's the one... He didn't just do physical gymnastics, he did mental gymnastics to get to where he is, 'di ba?

HOWIE: And emotional. Emotional din, 'no?

DOC ANNA: Yeah, definitely. And in a way, I think that, ano eh, 'yung mga professional athlete, you know, 'yung high-level athletes, magaling diyan. Every high-level athlete will tell you, physical, kaya 'yan, e. Daan sa workout, daan sa training, daan sa conditioning.

Sa mental, nagkakatalo. You know, 'yung.. that mind game that happens when you're there.

If you second... The moment you second-guess yourself, naku lalo na in a sport like gymnastics, you can fall. You can stumble, 'di ba, the moment you get distracted.

So I think it helped, the sport helped him, if that makes sense. Well, I don't know exactly pero, 'di ba, I could imagine that the sport, being in this... having that mindset of an athlete helped him focus with all the chaos and all the noise around.

So, yeah. Like, for me, the biggest credit should be him, the one who actually achieved the two gold medals. Of course, my gosh, hindi naman limited ang credit, 'di ba, Howie. 'Yun nga 'yung inaano ko, e. There can be credit all around. It's not just this one person, this other person. It's not just one coach or this coach, 'di ba?

I'm sure every person along the way has helped him. But let's not forget, he did this himself. Like, it was his actions, his behavior, his performance that led to this achievement.

HOWIE: And I think that's a great note to end on, you know. I know you have more important duties right now, Doc.

So thank you for sharing your time and your really important perspective on all of this. I understand it better now. I feel more comfortable even about my own relationship.

So maraming-maraming salamat, Dr. Anna Tuazon, podcaster, writer, newspaper columnist, and clinical psychologist. Mabuhay ka. Thank you for your service.

DOC ANNA: Thank you so much, Howie, for having me.