Why 'revenge travel' was wrong —environmental planner Chen Mencias

The end of the pandemic unleashed a flood of tourists around the Philippines that is wreaking havoc on fragile ecosystems. Environmental planner Chen Mencias has been advising local governments to aim for "high value, low volume," and involve local communities in tourism enterprises. She gives hot takes on the Chocolate Hills controversy and the Boracay model of development. And she lists the ways that Filipinos can be responsible tourists, and mentions two localities where local governments are managing their tourism sustainably.

HOWIE:Magandang araw, podmates! Howie Severino muli na nagpapaalala na nakakatalino ang mahabang attention span.

Kasagsagan na ng summer at marami sa atin ang bibiyahe at magiging turista sa sariling bansa. Paano ba maging mabuting turista? Ano ba ang batayan para maging eco-friendly ang isang lugar o resort? Ano ba talaga ang naging problema sa Chocolate Hills sa Bohol?

Susubukan nating sagutin ang mga tanong na 'yan at iba pa. Panauhin natin ngayon si Chen Mencias, environmental planner at tourism expert at advisor sa mga local government at advocate ng sustainable tourism. Magandang araw sa iyo, Chen Mencias.

CHEN: Magandang umaga, Howie. Salamat sa pag-imbita mo sa akin.

HOWIE: Anong take mo sa controversy ukol sa Captain's Peak Resort sa Chocolate Hills, 'yung nasa balita?

CHEN: 1988 'yung unang declaration niyan as a National Geological Monument, 'di ba? So mahalaga. Ni-recognize na as early as then. And then, 'yung 1997, dineclare 1,776 hills as Chocolate Hills National Monument, 'di ba?

So it's an expression of how valuable the landscape is, 'no? Because it's very unique. However, nu'ng 2003, in-amend 'yung batas. Inilabas 'yung mga flat portion at A and D, in between the hills doon sa protected area. E, kasi may mga titulo na 'yan, A and D 'yan e, 'di ba? Pero puwede namang hindi, e.

HOWIE: 'Yung A and D, that might not be clear to others. That's alienable and disposable. In other words, that's private land.

CHEN: 'Yan yung puwedeng titulohan nga.

HOWIE: Puwedeng may titulo which could be agricultural, it could be for residential, it could be commercial.

CHEN: I think that's the root cause of the problem, e. Kahit na sabihin mo nang nilabas mo 'yan, dapat mayroon pa rin strict guidelines. Kasi you're not just walking the hills, you know, from below, from within sa ground level. You're viewing it, 'di ba, from the top. As in, it's a view.

So anything that you put in there will decrease the value as a landscape that you view from afar, 'di ba? Like kunwari ang Batanes, it's the only province na 'yun, buong probinsya, anim na munisipyo. Lahat ng kasuluk-sulukan niyan is a protected area. And yet, may mga A and D naman doon. May mga tituladong lupa. Bakit naipasok lahat 'yun? Ba't ito hindi? Mas grabe pa nga 'yung distraction nito, e, 'pag ganyan ang setup mo.

Kasi kumbaga mayroon kang labyrinth within the landscape, may labyrinth ka ng mga A and D na bahala sila kung anong gawin nila riyan, kung anong kulay ilagay nila riyan. Hindi mo malagyan ng guidelines. Compared to a landscape, protected area, na nilagyan mo lang ng isang kalye sa gitna, mafa-fragment talaga 'yan.

At saka ang lalapit ng mga hill, e. So ang kitid na lang talaga. 'Yung 20 meters sa baseline, halos kakainin na 'yung properties na 'yan e.

So dapat pinag-isipan nang husto. Kasi mayroon namang batas ang DENR [Department of Environment and Natural Resources], 'yung DAO [Department Administrative Order] 2013-19 that provides guidelines for ecotourism development. Puwede naman, a resort can align itself along ecotourism principles.

'Yung kunwari, 'yung kulay. Hindi ganyan na parang piyesta ang kulay na masakit sa mata, 'di ba? You have greenery and then, all of a sudden may pula ka riyan, may blue ka riyan, may whatever, dilaw.

Mayroon tayong DAO 2009-09, which provides guidelines on the structures, the colors, the size. Nandiyan, nandu'n lahat. Bakit hindi in-impose 'yun? Sana in-impose na lang 'yun. Tinuruan 'yung private sector. Kasi 'yung private sector hindi mo rin masisi kasi 'yun lang ang exposure nila. Ganu'n 'yung development na alam nila.

So it's the government's task to give them guidelines and give them direction on how they are going to develop their property.

Hindi 'yung bahala kayo, 'di ba? Paano pumasa? 'Yan ang tanong ng mga tao. Paano pumasa 'yan? Nabigyan ng permit, 'di ba?

HOWIE: Okay, Chen, gusto ko lang talakayin itong ilang issues na nabanggit mo ukol diyan sa resort sa Chocolate Hills sa Bohol, 'no? Kasi they're relevant to a lot of other places in the Philippines kasi marami na tayong protected areas.

So ang tanong ko lang diyan is realistic ba na hindi kilalanin 'yung rights ng mga nandu'n na, 'yung mga land owner, 'yung mga may-ari ng property na nandu'n na nu'ng dineklara 'yan?

And then, 'yung number two, 'yung issue nga na kung papayagan nga mag-develop ng mga resort, dapat sumunod doon sa mga guideline. So those are two separate issues.

One is, I guess, is because that applies to many other places. Marami tayong protected areas. Halos lahat ng protected areas natin may mga inhabitant na. May mga iba't ibang right o tenurial rights doon sa lugar nila. So it's really a matter of fairness as well na kilalanin mo 'yung mga right ng mga taong nandu'n na, in particular, Bohol.

The first question is, wouldn't it have been realistic not to allow private land ownership in the Chocolate Hills in between the hills themselves? 'Yung sa mga flat area?

CHEN: You have to recognize those rights. Kasi by law, 'di ba, e, A and D na, titulado naman. So they have the right. But kailangan bigyan ng direksyon. Now, kung labas sa management ng DENR 'yung mga private land, the responsibility of providing those guidelines will now rest on the local government, 'di ba?

Kasi roon sa batas nakalagay naman diyan na i-integrate nila sa CLUP nila. So meaning the CLUP will now recognize it as a special use, A and D property. Because it's within the protected area. It's woven, e. Woven sa landscape, e.

HOWIE: So itong sinasabi mong CLUP --

CHEN: Comprehensive Land Use Plan.

HOWIE: Dapat lahat ng local governments may plan na ganyan.

CHEN: Required by law 'yan. So it's now the LGU [local government unit] that has to put up those guidelines. At puwede naman nila i-adapt 'yung guidelines ng DAO 2009-09 para hindi na sila maglabas ng sarili nila. Puwede naman 'yun, e. And then, monitoring. Kasi dumaraan sa permitting process, 'di ba? So dapat walang lusot. Hindi puwedeng may nauna, mayroong susunod tapos mayroong sumusunod, mayroong hindi. Pangit 'yun. Mababatikos lang ang local government. Even the national government.

So ito, 'yung remedy siguro diyan is palitan niya 'yung kulay niya. Tingnan nila how we can adapt ourselves to the guidelines of an ecotourism site based on the law.

HOWIE: Just for context, Chen. Sabi mo ibahin 'yung kulay. Baka hindi maalala ng mga listener natin kung ano 'yung kulay niya? So you mean 'yung chlorinated pool, 'yun ba ang sinasabi mo?

CHEN: 'Yun ang 'di nila mapapalitan.

HOWIE: Ano ba 'yung hindi magandang kulay roon?

CHEN: Ah kasi may mga bright color siya, 'di ba? Kasi ang gusto niya parang ano is festive.

HOWIE: Festive.

CHEN: Festive, yeah. 'Yun nga, eyesore because it's a landscape, 'di ba? Na green na rin, 'di ba? So sa DAO 2009-09 kasi ang kulay lang na-accepted sa ecotourism sites are green, brown, yellow and white. 'Yun lang. Even sa mga signage, even sa structures.

Kasi it has to blend with the environment. Ngayon 'yung issue 'yung swimming pool kasi talagang tingkad na tingkad 'yung blue, 'di ba?

Pero kasi in the first place, ang tanong ko roon is, dapat ba talagang may swimming pool? Kasi nga protected area siya. So may issue pa riyan ng water usage. So mayroon bang pagsusuri regarding hydrology ng lugar? Is there enough water that they can get to put up so many swimming pools in that area? Kasi nagkaroon na ng isa e. So siyempre lalaban ang iba. "E, ba't pinayagan 'yan? Gusto rin namin mag-swimming pool."

Maubos 'yung tubig diyan, 'di ba? Kasi hindi naman siya 'yung parang forest na, you know, nakaka-absorb ng maraming runoff. Kasi nga walang puno e. Damo e, 'di ba?

HOWIE: Okay. Chen, sinasabi kasi ng may-ari ng resort na 'yun, 'yung nagva-violate daw ng mga environmental regulation hindi lang naman daw sila. Bakit, you know, parang sila 'yung pinag-iinitan, 'no? Are they being singled out, not just there sa area na 'yun, 'no? But, you know, all over the Philippines ang dami ng resort at developments na nagkaroon lang ng focus dito sa resort na 'yan, 'no?

I mean, is it fair na pinag-uusapan natin sila ngayon na sila lang? Or marami pang ibang resort na katulad nila?

CHEN: It's reflective of 'yung ignorance ng mga taong involved about the value of a protected area. Kasi na-expose naman sila because of a vlogger na nag-release nitong video, na akala niya it's helping the owner, 'no? Kasi ganyan sila, 'di ba, mga vlogger. So they will vlog about their experience. Kaso nga napansin, e, kasi nga umikot, naging viral, 'di ba, because it's Chocolate Hills. But, they're not alone.

I mean, I'm not just talking about Chocolate Hills. I'm talking about the entire country. If you travel around, madidismaya ka sa mga protected area natin na napapabayaan 'yung ganyan, 'no? Kasi, well, mayroon din kasing ibang lito. Lito ru'n sa concept na until now, despite the law, e iba 'yung interpretation.

So kailangan ma-educate din 'yung mga local government. Devolved na rin kasi ngayon some of the powers ng national [government]. So sila 'yung nandu'n on the ground, 'no? You need to have champions that will push for the law to be applied. Hindi lang siya law and paper.

And also 'yung responsibility ng mga private sector, 'yung mga business owner natin to educate themselves before they go into a business. Alamin nila 'yung restrictions, alamin nila 'yung responsibility nila. Kasi it's the messaging e. Tapos ito namang mga vlogger din, they also need to educate themselves.

"Ano ba 'yung message na nilalabas ko?" Kasi, very powerful 'yung sinasabi nila sa mga follower nila. So lahat, lahat involved e. Lahat tayo, kumbaga, e, guilty in some way sa kamalian, sa mga misconception at misinterpretation ng konsepto.

HOWIE: Okay, Chen. Para sa mga nakikinig na mga land owner diyan sa Chocolate Hills kasi marami nga sila, 'no, kinilala 'yung rights nila pero iniisip nila ngayon anong puwedeng gawin doon sa property nila, 'no? Hindi na profitable 'yung magsaka o magtanim ng palay roon sa mga... At saka, maliit lang naman 'yung space nila, 'no?

So in business terms, it makes sense to develop their place for a business. So what would be ideal there? Sabi mo nga, maybe not a chlorinated pool but maybe a natural pool? Sabi mo nga na with colors that will blend with the earth. Sabi mo nga, puwedeng green, brown, yellow, ano pa ba 'yung isang kulay?

CHEN: White.

HOWIE: But ideally, what would be a good model for Chocolate Hills? For let's say, that kind of space in between the hills? Kasi there are other developments I've seen na may mga walkway going up to a viewpoint, may mga platform for viewing, you know, the scenery on some of the hills. 'Yun, puwede 'yun?

CHEN: Sa atin kasi, 'no, compared to other countries, and I've noticed this also sa mga cave systems natin na binubuksan sa turista, allergic ang civil society sa infrastructure. Maglagay ka lang ng kaunting hagdan diyan sa cave, you know, magre-react na 'yung tao. "Ah, nakakasira 'yan." Ganyan.

Kasi may mga purist tayo, e, na ayaw nila talaga. No touch. E, pinabayaan na 'yung turistang pumasok, e. 'Pag hindi mo nilagyan ng infrastructure, kung saan-saan lalakad 'yan. Parang trail development sa bundok papuntang waterfalls, 'pag hindi mo dinevelop 'yung trail, gagawa sila ng sariling trail.

Parang sa noong ginawa namin 'yung plano ng Mount Apo. Naku, sanga-sanga 'yung mga trail kasi nga hindi developed. So we need to understand that infrastructure can actually help protect the resources. But it has to be designed well na nagbe-blend naman siya sa environment.

Like if you go to, kunwari sa Malaysia, sa Kota Kinabalu, 'di ba? Ang ganda ng trail development, hindi siya nakakasira sa environment. Brown lang ang kulay ng mga step, mga bato, ganu'n, 'no? Ang ganda-ganda.

Even sa developed countries, ganu'n sila mag-develop ng mga tourism site. Why can't we do it here? Kasi lito tayo. Kani-kaniyang interpretation. Minsan political color pa 'yung gagawin, 'di ba? Parang mali 'yun, e.

We have to follow what is nice naman based on 'yung acceptable internationally. Sundan na natin, 'di ba? Hindi 'yung para tayong napaka-bakya, e, 'di ba? Pero ang thinking ko if I was going to, I was from the local government, I'll call a meeting of all these land owners with DENR present. And then, you know, have a meeting of the minds.

"Anong gagawin natin dito? We're getting a lot of flak already. Nandiyan na 'yung swimming pool. Baka naman puwede ma-convert du'n sa sinasabi mo ngayon, parang swimming pool nyo du'n sa Taal na napakaganda na natural pool, 'no? May mga halaman.

And it's going to be the talk of the town pa if we do that, 'di ba? Para siyang natural pond. Kahit makita mo from afar 'yung landscape, "Uy, ang ganda nu'n, ah. Pond na ganu'n, 'di ba?" Natural color lang 'yung mga building, 'yung mga structure, 'di ba?

So nagagawa 'yan sa Europe, 'di ba? Ang tawag diyan roofscape. The same color lang, hindi kani-kaniyang kulay. Ganu'n ang gawin natin. Let's set a standard of the roofscape of structures that are built in landscapes na binu-view from afar. Kasi nga nakakasira talaga.

Nasa batas pala 'yan, a. You cannot do anything, any activity that will destroy the value of the landscape.

HOWIE: Yeah, yeah. Pero that's subjective, 'di ba? I mean, ano ba 'yung nakakasira ng landscape or 'yung view, 'di ba? Kasi para sa iba, nakakaganda nga ng view 'yung swimming pool, 'di ba? Para sa iba, maganda 'yun.

CHEN: 'Yun nga, e. Kani-kaniyang interpretation ng batas talaga. Pero alam mo, ang batas, I'm not a lawyer pero ang thinking ko lang based sa trabaho ko ngayon, 'di ba, kasi may environmental education nga dapat, e. kung may awareness ang mga tao, hindi natin kailangan ng batas. 'Di ba?

May design concept tayo. Nagbe-benchmark tayo sa iba. And this is what is proper or appropriate for the environment. Pero kung bakya 'yung exposure natin, sisirain natin ng ganyan, 'di ba? E, you need the law. 'Di ba? Set the guidelines, penalize 'pag di ka sumunod sa batas.

We need to educate ourselves. What is proper for a protected area, 'di ba? At biglang natalisod mo 'yung batas, "Ay, oo nga. Sige, gagawin ko. Mag-research ako. Anong magandang design?"

HOWIE: Oo. Chen, well, before we leave the issue of this Chocolate Hills Resort, parang what you just said kind of reminds me of what I was thinking about in terms of how the public is divided now. Kasi itong sinasabi mong travel vlogger, si Ren the Adventurer, 'yung nag-post ng drone video, he was actually very positive about it.

Parang pino-promote niya halos 'yung resort na 'yan na maganda, na may mga magandang facility, et cetera. Pero doon nga nag-react with outrage 'yung maraming nakakita. But for people like Ren, and there are many people like him, maganda 'yun. And it was worth, like, promoting. It was worth sharing.

Pero 'yun na nga, naunahan itong mga, I would say, I don't know, I don't want to call them just, you know, the more enlightened crowd but maybe people who, sinasabi mo nga, might be more purists, who don't want a swimming pool in the middle of a protected area or a national geological formation.

So itong sinasabi mong environmental education, we're seeing that now and it's kind of dividing opinion about these kinds of developments.

So Chen, madalas natin marinig 'yung ecotourism at eco-friendly. Ano bang take mo riyan sa mga konsepto na 'yan? At saka ano 'yung understanding mo sa kanila?

CHEN: 'Yung ecotourism for many years, siguro starting in the 90s or even 80s, was misunderstood and misinterpreted. Grossly misinterpreted. Mayroon ka lang beach, ile-label ng ecotourism site. It's not enough. However, the good news is that in 2013, the national government adopted a definition that is in the context of the Philippine development. Kasi there's no one single definition for the entire world kasi iba-iba 'yung konteksto.

So sa atin, there are certain elements that has to be in place para matawag na ecotourism site ang isang destination. First, it has to be within a natural and cultural area. Ibig sabihin, may tao. Kasi you don't necessarily have to have a Spanish lighthouse to call it a cultural site or an old church. Importante kasi 'yung presence ng tao.

Kasi in other countries, especially in developed countries, may mga protected area pero walang nakatira du'n, e. Kaya nilang i-relocate ang mga tao para hindi nasisira pero sa atin, hindi. May mga nakatira. And the people living in these outstanding places, protected areas are the poorest of the poor.

Kasi there are restrictions on how you are going to use the resources. So mahirap sila. So how do you solve that? And there's like parang problem there. Kasi nag-i-illegal sila because they don't have the money to feed themselves. So ecotourism is the answer actually.

So nu'ng nagkaroon ng definition ng 2013, it included that — it has to be in a natural and, not or, and cultural area. So ibig sabihin, you have ecosystems — forest, mangroves, riverine ecosystem, lakes, you know, or coral reefs.

So second, there has to be a community present there who are willing to be partners with government. Kasi we have to admit, 'no, na we have so many protected areas pero hindi naman kayang bantayan 'yan ng government, even local government. They don't have enough people. Rangers, you know, bantay-dagat. Wala tayong pang-suweldo sa mga 'yan.

So what the strategy involves the participation of the people living in those destinations, those ecotourism sites. Sila mismo 'yung magbabantay. Pero 'yung isang realization is that hindi mo puwede silang iobliga. Kasi isang kahig isang tuka sila. Araw-araw, wala silang suweldo.

Hindi puwedeng sabihin mo lang, konsensyahin mo lang, "E, 'pag hindi natin inalagaan ito, wala kayong future." Hindi, e. You have to replace that. 'Yung need nila for everyday existence and survival. So ecotourism is the answer because it involves the establishment of micro-enterprises.

Sila 'yung magbibigay ng serbisyo sa mga papasok doon to enjoy the natural and cultural environment. And then, there also has to be environmental education and ethics. So ibig sabihin, 'yun ang pinagkaiba ru'n sa mga urban destination, na wala ka namang masyadong environmental education doon because it's already a built destination.

But in nature, there's so many things that people can learn. Especially 'yung hindi ka talaga exposed sa ecosystem or sa ecology. Alam mo 'yun? Pinag-aralan natin noong high school pero nakalimutan na natin 'yung significance of the water cycle. Bakit hindi natin puwedeng tapunan ng plastic 'yung ilog sa bundok kasi eventually darating sa dagat. You know, those simple stories that can change people's perspective when they come out of an ecotourism experience.

And then, there has to be benefit. Naka-specify doon sa definition, there has to be economic benefit to the community that will be involved. So and then, you have interesting experiences for the satisfaction of the visitor. So that's the definition of ecotourism.

And it's swak na swak siya talaga as a strategy for strengthening protection of natural and outstanding locations.

HOWIE: Okay. Chen, I want to take off on your definition and recall 'yung ating expedition. We were together in the Palanan Wilderness about 15 years ago. I'm sure you remember this well. We were together with your husband, Louie, and I was with my family.

We went to the Palanan Wilderness which is on the Pacific side of Northeast Luzon sa Isabela Province. If you remember, may mga lowland forest pa roon, ancient forest, even beach forest, halos walang tao. Pero dahil walang community sa malaking bahagi or there was no visible community roon sa malaking bahagi ng Palanan Wilderness, hindi natin maaaring sabihin na ecotourism site 'yun dahil walang community at alam natin na it's now a protected area.

Pero it doesn't seem to meet some of those criteria that you described. So ang isang lugar na ganu'n, and I know there aren't too many in the Philippines na wala ka masyadong makikitang tao. There might be places in Southern Palawan maybe or some islands. Pero 'yung mga lugar na ganu'n would not fit your definition? 'Yung mga ganu'ng klaseng lugar na wala masyadong taong makikita?

CHEN: Well, if you do enough research on the site, it's a protected area. It's a part of the Northern Sierra Madre Natural Park. There are communities. Kaya lang, you have to look for them and you have to organize them. Hindi puwedeng kung sino lang 'yung madatnan mo. That's not how it works.

The local government's role in terms of finding these communities, this group of people, whether it's their IPs or migrants, you know, is very crucial. Kasi like ako, hindi naman ako laging nandu'n, 'di ba? Even if I get involved in the project. So they have to be organized and they have to be willing to participate in providing services.

Pero kung wala kang ganu'n, better na 'wag mo muna papasukan kasi masisira talaga 'yan, e. 'Yung general behavior ng mga Pilipino, kung makakalusot ba 'yung mga unethical and unsustainable practices, basta walang sumisita, gagawin nila 'yun, e, 'di ba?

Magsunog sila ri'yan sa gubat. Kaya nasusunog gubat natin because of that kasi naiiwan 'yung mga ember, 'di ba? Pero kung may guide ka, I mean, they know what the rules are, they know what practices should be done, they could tell or remind the visitors, "Oh, please lang po 'yung garbage in, garbage out tayo. Hindi tayo puwede mag-bonfire, et cetera." 'Di ba?

Ang Pilipino kailangan pang mabantayan, e. Hindi kagaya ng mga developed countries, developed na talaga 'yung ethic of traveling responsibly. Atin hindi pa, e. Kailangan pang bantayan. So 'yung mga lugar na gan'yan, sabi mo nga, iilan na lang 'yan, ibangko muna natin. Huwag muna natin ilabas lahat.

Ang nakakatakot ngayon, ang daming naglalabas ng mga video sa TikTok, 'yun, may mga reel sila about places na ganyan, na pristine, na wala pang ginagawa ang gobyerno, wala pang organized groups pero napapasok na ng mga turista, nauunahan. So 'yun, 'yun ang pinagkaiba natin many years ago.

'Di ba, Howie, 'pag nagsusulat ka sa diyaryo noon, doon lang malalaman ng tao na may ganyan palang lugar. Ngayon, real time, basta may signal, may Starlink ka ri'yan, nakalabas na agad 'yung videos, e. So it's very dangerous.

That's why 'yung challenge sa local government is to start planning. Huwag maghintay na may turista bago magplano kasi nauunahan. So ganu'n, 'no? I-preserve muna natin 'yung mga hindi pa natin na nahahanda. Huwag muna natin buksan sa turista 'yung mga ganyang pristine place. Ireserba muna natin for future development.

HOWIE: So ang iminumungkahi mo sa mga biyahero na nakakapunta sa mga pristine place na ganyan, na wala pang tourism facilities masyado, hindi pa masyado napupuntahan, ay huwag masyadong i-expose o huwag mag-post ng reels or videos sa mga social media platform muna bago magkaroon ng mga safeguard, plans ng local governments. Huwag munang ilalabas. Sabi mo nga, ibangko muna natin. Isikreto muna ng mga nakakadiskubre.

CHEN: Yeah. Pero alam mo, ang hirap pigilan 'yan, e. Kasi kani-kaniyang decision na 'yan e. So if you notice du'n sa Sierra Madre natin, even if we post a picture, we don't say where it is. Kasi ayaw natin next time bumalik tayo ay iba na. Malulungkot na tayo, 'di ba? So that's the usual trend.

Nagche-change talaga 'yung lugar once pumasok na 'yung mga turista. As in, talagang kawawa 'yung mga local. Kawawa 'yung local government, nahaharap din sa problema kasi sila'y maiiwanan ng problema. So we have to be very progressive and not reactive to tourism. We have to prepare ourselves.

Parang hinahanda mo 'yung bahay mo. Hindi mo bubuksan bigla ang pintuan mo sa bisita mo, e, nang hindi ka naglilinis, hindi mo inayos 'yung banyo mo, may uupuan sila, 'di ba? May kakakainin sila. Ganu'n din.

Kasi madidismaya ang turista, 'no? Iba-badmouth lang tayo. Tapos sisirain lang nila 'yung mga natural environment natin. Think about it, 'no, itong kalikasan natin took millions of years to be created by nature, by God whatever your belief is, 'di ba. Tapos sisirain natin ng 15-20 years?

Parang in our lifetime, sisirain natin. Parang kasalanan 'yun e.  I was hoping nu'ng 2 years na nanatili tayo sa bahay na magkaroon ng reflection ang mga tao. Kaya lang 'yung ginamit 'yung term na revenge, revenge travel, parang negative ang epekto, e.

HOWIE: Parang ganti, 'no?

CHEN: Oo. Parang hindi maganda. Sana prepare natin during the pandemic 'yung psyche ng mga tao na 'pag lumabas na tayo, puwede na tayong magbiyahe, ito ngayon ang ating pag-uugali. Kaso ganu'n pa rin, e.

Alam mo ba anong cause niyan, Howie? Sasabihin ko sa 'yo, a. Kasi ang sukat lang natin sa industriya natin ay dami ng tao. So kung ganu'n ang batayan ng success ng isang destination, gagawin lahat,  e, to promote the place. Mag-i-sponsor ang local government ng mga vlogger na maglalabas, magpo-promote kasi 'yan naman ang leverage nila.

"Ipo-promote ko po kayo. The more tourists there are, the better." That's the belief until now. Which is very sad. It has to change. We have to impose carrying capacities. You know, in Batanes, when I was being considered to be their consultant, sinabi ko sa kanila, "Napaka-fragile ng Batanes lalo na 'yung culture ninyo, 'di ba? And you don't want to change that. Sabi n'yo mahalaga sa inyo 'yung mga old house ninyo. Pero kailangan hindi n'yo maging mission na papuntahin lahat ng tao sa mundo, even lahat ng Pilipino sa probinsya n'yo. Kailangan pag-ipunan nila ang Batanes." High value, low volume. That's the trick.

Magalit na't magalit 'yung hindi maka-afford. Pag-ipunan ninyo. Kasi ganu'n din naman ang gagawin mo if you want to travel to Machu Picchu, you want to go to Paris, you want to go to Venice, pag-iipunan mo. Pero kung cheap ang destination, 'yung mura, 10 piso lang, makakita ka na ng magandang waterfalls, ay naku kukunin mo sa dami para maging economically viable, para ma-recover mo 'yung in-invest mo. So ganu'n kasi.

It has to really change. That's the root cause of the damage that's being done to our destinations that are very valuable to us.

HOWIE: I wanna ask you now, Chen, about the most popular tourist destination in the country siguro up to now, 'yung Boracay.

Kasi if you go to other beach destinations now that are not, that are still not as big or popular, halimbawa, La Union, 'yung LU or Siargao, which is becoming more popular now, and places in Palawan, sometimes you hear from, you know, resort owners or people in tourism industry, you know, "We don't want to be like Boracay," you know?

Parang, for them, Boracay is seen as a bad example. But Boracay is very profitable. Pino-promote siya ng gobyerno and they get so, so many tourists, millions of tourists over the years. And then, 'pag sinabi mong beaches sa Pilipinas, Boracay madalas ang una mong maiisip. It's named one of the best beaches in the world. What is wrong with Boracay, if anything, Chen?

CHEN: Oh, many things. Hindi sapat 'yung oras mo, Howie, to talk about that. But what I'm saying is that it's a good example of a bad example. Kasi napabayaan, napabayaan. And 'yung closure cost the government so much money that could have been spent in, you know, better destinations.

But, you know, nagkaroon ng maraming focus on that, on Boracay, and the government's also claiming na sustainable na siya, which I beg to disagree. So binabaha pa rin naman sila.

No matter how much funds you put in to rehabilitate a place, you cannot bring it back to its original state. It's impossible. So the best way talaga for local governments to go about this is 'wag ninyong pabayaan. Ibig sabihin, magplano kayo habang wala pa kayong turista kasi 'pag dagsa na ng turista, naka-focus na lang tayo sa economic gain.

'Yun 'yung trap ng Boracay e. Focused kasi sa economic gain and not looking at the impact on the environment, the social fabric, crime rates. Maraming indicators na kailangan pansinin din. Parang sakit sa katawan 'yan, e. Nilalagnat ka pero kino-correct mo lang 'yung lagnat pero 'yung root cause ng lagnat, hindi mo inaalam. And then, eventually mamatay ka na lang isang araw.

Ganu'n ang Boracay. Namatay na lang isang araw. Namamatay na siya. Kung makakapagsalita lang 'yung isla noon before the closure, nagmura na 'yan, e. Kaya lang hindi pinapansin. Marami siyang indicator na nilalabas pero hindi pinapansin. Kasi nga nabulag na lang sa pera ang mga negosyante at mga turista. So I don't call that thriving industry at all.

HOWIE: So nu'ng panahon kasi ng administrasyong Duterte nga, nabanggit mo na ipinasara 'yung buong isla. There was a long closure. It was actually very controversial. Ang daming resort owners, people in the tourism industry na nagreklamo. But now in retrospect, do you think that was a good decision?

CHEN: They had no choice at that time because it was getting a lot of attention, the situation. And people were actually agreeing that it's already worst, the situation. And in fact, if you read sa mga newspaper, sa news, there were other, like six or seven other destinations after Boracay that the government wanted to close.

There's Panglao, there's Coron, there's El Nido, 'yung mga 'yan, Puerto Galera. Hindi na nila sinara because the national government spent billions in Boracay. It cannot afford to keep closing destinations na ganyan ang nangyayari. So in fact, ang nangyari nga noon, I was hired by Panglao, e, kasi sila na 'yung susunod na isasara. And they cannot afford.

HOWIE: Panglao, sa Bohol din 'yun.

CHEN: Panglao is a municipality, samantalang El Nido is only an island, a. So ang daming apektado roon, 'di ba? Including the locals. Kasi hundred percent shifts na sila sa tourism. Which is, again, a bad decision by the local government. Huwag kayong magshi-shift hundred percent sa tourism because it's not, it's a very elastic industry that's affected. It's very sensitive to changes.

Tingnan mo nga, nag-pandemic, patay lahat ng mga destination natin, apektado lahat. So 'yung sa Panglao, ang hirap. Ang hirap pagplanuhan kasi realignment 'yung ginawa namin. Ang hirap mag-realign. So even if I come up with a good plan for them, which is, again, in consultation with them, with the local government stakeholders, e, nagpalit na naman ng, nagpalit ng guards.

Ibig sabihin, iba na naman 'yung mga decision maker heading the government. So hindi ko alam kung ilalakad nila 'yung plano na 'yan kasi nawala na 'yung init ng national government sa kanila kasi laki ng ginastos sa Boracay. So baka balik na naman sila sa dati, 'di ba?

So ang nasasabi ko, you need to have leaders who are serious about following the sustainable path. And right from the very beginning, magplano na. Hindi 'yung kung kailan may kasiraan saka magpaplano. That's not planning anymore. That's correcting. That's rehabilitation. Mas expensive mag-rehabilitate kaysa magplano.

And then, you prevent things from happening. And then, people are aware. So gising sila, hindi sila bulag sa pera. Once bulag sa pera, naku, ang hirap-hirap na i-change talaga ang mindset ng tao towards sustainable industry.

HOWIE: Well, 'yung isang nangyari sa Boracay, it's a very small island, but they have some big hotels, some big resorts. 'Yan ba 'yung kailangan iwasan? So in a place like that na maliit lang 'yung area at saka very fragile 'yung ecosystem, dapat maliliit lang na establishment in smaller places?

CHEN: Well, depende sa resources that are available, especially water. Hindi puwedeng unlimited number of buildings and unlimited height. Kasi siyempre, mayroon din restrictions 'yung soil natin, 'yung bottom composition, 'di ba? May mga restriction 'yan. And it's the local government that can impose that sa CLUP nila kasi pinag-aralan naman nila 'yung restrictions ng land area nila, 'no? So that has to be followed.

Comprehensive Land Use Plan. It's the mother of all plans ng local government. Nandiyan nakalagay 'yung mga timberland, protected areas, agriculture, A and D, nandiyan. So restricted talaga. Kaso minsan hindi rin nasusunod 'yan. Kasi iba 'yung nasa dokumento at isa 'yung actual use. Mayroong gap.

So kung pabaya ang local government, makikita mo talaga, even 'yung mga hindi pa, agriculture pa lang, A and D na 'yung agriculture, pero allotted siya for food production, pero may mga resort na. Nagbenta na kasi 'yung mga may-ari kasi mas inisip nila, "Instant millionaire ako kapag binenta ko 'yung lupain ko, ang tataniman ko. Hindi na ako magtatanim. Hindi na ako magpa-farming."

Delikado po 'yan. 'Pag inubos natin 'yung agricultural land natin. Pero nasa zoning ordinance 'yan. Hindi puwedeng mawala ng agricultural land. Pero 'yung actual use, hindi na. Kasi pabaya na 'yung local government. Nasilaw rin sa pera.

HOWIE: So presumably lahat ng LGU. So kunwari, itong mga nakikinig sa atin ngayon, we're all residents under some LGU somewhere in the Philippines, right? To see the plan? I mean para makita natin kung sumusunod 'yung gobyerno o 'yung developers doon sa land use plan na 'yan? Is that open to the public?

CHEN: Yeah, of course. Ang ka-partner 'yan ng document is a zoning ordinance. That's more important especially if you're buying property. Tingnan mo muna kung 'yung binibili mong property is A and D na or ano ang zoning? Baka agricultural pa, hindi ka puwedeng magtayo diyan ng commercial, 'di ba?

So part of the responsibility of a buyer of property and somebody who's thinking about going into the business is to follow the zoning of the land. So I was wondering, that's also one of my thoughts. Ano ba ang zoning ng local government diyan sa A and D property in between the hills? Ano ang zoning nila riyan? 'Di ba?

So kung zoned na ba siya for tourism? In that case, kailangan din ng restrictions. Protected area kasi siya. So 'yung mga ganyan, 'no? Of course, minsan LGU lang nakakaalam, e. 'Yan ang pinagbabasehan kasi, e, ng mga permit 'yung zoning.

HOWIE: Yeh. But sabi mo nga, minsan hindi nga sinusunod 'yung plano. But civil society or ordinary citizens can help make sure that their local governments follow the plan. 'Di ba? Kasi presumably that has a technical, scientific basis. So the local government should be transparent about the CLUP. Is that on the internet? Most of these plans?

CHEN: Some of them are posted including the zoning ordinance.

HOWIE: So puwedeng silipin sa, let's say, website ng isang LGU, nandu'n?

CHEN: Yes. Nasa website nila.

HOWIE: Kung makikita mo 'yung katabi mong property na dine-develop, kung talagang puwede mag-develop doon ng kung anu-ano like a poultry. Kunwari may magpagawa ng poultry sa tabi ng property. You can see kung puwede 'yun.

CHEN: So babuyan, 'no? Sa tabi ng ilog. 'Di ba?

HOWIE: Yeah, okay.

CHEN: Pollutive industries.

HOWIE: Okay. I wanna ask you now about marketing ng tourism. Kasi about a year ago, July 2023, naging controversial itong bagong tourism slogan ng national government, itong "Love the Philippines."

Of course, naging controversial 'yan for a couple of reasons. One is 'yung unang video nila ay may mga shot, may mga video clip na hindi pala Pilipinas. So ang daming nagalit na tao at kasama riyan 'yung mga ibang politiko natin. And then, the slogan itself, "Love the Philippines." Parang some people were saying it's like a command, parang ano ba, para tayong insecure na pinipilit natin.

Nagdi-dictate tayo sa turista na mahalin tayo. Anyway, as a tourism planner, environmental planner, ano... would you have advised that kind of slogan? Ano ba 'yung naging reaction mo noong una mong narinig 'yan?

CHEN: My first thought is that ba't pinalitan na naman? Kasi 'yun nga, 'yun ang laging sentiment ng madami, 'no, those who can understand marketing, dapat 'di ka papalit-palit ng brand.

HOWIE: Before that, it was "It's more fun in the Philippines."

CHEN: More fun. Before that, 'yung "Wow Philippines."

HOWIE: For years, it was that, 'no? Okay. And then, pinalitan, naging Love the Philippines. Kasi nagbago 'yung gobyerno. So they want to have their own branding.

CHEN: 'Yun nga sakit natin, e. And you were wondering bakit — kanina we were discussing before the show — bakit ang Malaysia is getting so much, so much tourists. Tayo hindi. Whereas maganda rin naman tayo, 'no? It's because of the branding. Kailan ba nagpalit ang "Malaysia, Truly Asia"? It's been their brand for years, for decades, 'di ba? So you know, retention is important, e.

And then you, you deliver the essence of the brand. Tayo hindi, e. Iba-iba essence ng brand natin, e. Litung-lito ang turista sa atin, e. Dati, you know, Wow Philippines, It's more fun. Ngayon, love.

Maganda naman 'yung word, 'di ba? Siyempre, love, you know. It's like being cared. Nandiyan 'yung stewardship and care. But I think 'yung love is, can also be focused on the Filipinos themselves, the local government. Everyone that is responsible for taking care of destinations.

Kung mahal talaga natin ng Pilipinas, gagawin natin 'yung mandate natin, gagawin natin 'yung responsibility natin. Kahit tayo mismo nag-travel within our own country, maging turista tayo, hindi natin sisirain that we will minimize our impact. 'Di ba? E, ang kaso, ugali natin kung makakalusot, palulusutin, e.

Kung walang naninita, 'di ba, gagawin natin. Tapon tayo ng basura kung saan. Makakadismaya. So I think that has to be, that has to go beyond the brand. And the national government should really take the challenge of, interpret natin 'yan sa baba. What is love of country? Love of a destination? Love of all these endowments na krineate ng kalikasan for millions of years? Ano ba 'yung love na 'yan?

It's not just about love of what you can see with your eyes, 'di ba? It's also love of 'yung intergenerational thinking mo.

Mas malalim 'yun kaysa sa ma-experience mo lang siya ng one or two days.

Intergenerational thinking. That should be the essence of the brand para hindi natin sirain in 15 years. Lipat lang tayo sa susunod na destination, iwanan na natin 'yung LGU with the problem. I think it has to be interpreted in a deeper way.

HOWIE: Okay, let's end on a positive note, Chen. Give us examples where we showed love for the Philippines in terms of tourism. Ano ba 'yung mga successful model natin?

Talk to us about what you consider models of sustainable tourism, places that are ready to accept more travelers, places that are doing it right.

CHEN: Yeah, one is in Sagay City, where one of the biggest protected areas.

HOWIE: It is on Negros Island.

CHEN: The northern part of the island of Negros Occidental. We did a master plan for them, and the nice thing is that they're really implementing strictly the plan in the business model; community-based ang approach.

So there's active participation of organized fisherfolks, farmers, tricycle drivers, you know, people living along the coastal area. And then, the academic institutions are also actively involved. You know, they're really following the principles of sustainable tourism and putting in place all the different elements. Kasi it takes time to implement a plan.

It takes years. Kasi nga 'yung budget restriction natin, 'di ba? Hindi naman agad maglalabas ng pera for that, because the LGU has so many things to fund.

But so far sila, they have this mangrove area. It's just a habitat for flying foxes, and there's a community that will provide services to you, 'yung Suyak Island. You can search that in the internet, award-winning na rin sila.

HOWIE: So 'yung attraction doon ay mangrove? So they can hike through the mangrove.

CHEN: May boardwalk, mayroon silang sandbar, 'yung carbon reef, may coral reef.

HOWIE: May snorkeling doon.

CHEN: Yeah. And that whole, the islands, the mangroves, the sandbar is part of a bigger protected area. One of the biggest, 'no? Sagay Marine Reserve. So that's a strategy to engage the people to protect the marine reserve. Hindi sila mismo 'yung nag-i-ilegal.

So doon nag-work 'yung model namin, that you have tourism that provides an economic incentive for stronger protection. Kasi hindi kaya ng local government lang. They don't have enough people to patrol the area 24/7. So you provide livelihood. 'Yun ang incentive nila na kikita sila.

Kasi kung ang basehan ng hanapbuhay mo ay kalikasan, alagaan mo 'yan. Hindi mo 'yan kukunin kasi bukas, wala ka na hanapbuhay 'pag wala na 'yung mangrove. So babantayan mo 'yan, 'di ba?

HOWIE: So sa Sagay, may hotels.

CHEN: Mayroon na. Kasi city naman sila, e. So 'yun 'yung nakakatuwa, city sila. And yet, they have one of the biggest protected marine reserves.

HOWIE: So are you encouraging, halimbawa, 'yung mga ordinaryong tao na to accept, let's say, 'yung gawing AirBnB or BnB 'yung kanilang bahay or homestay, 'di ba? Is that something that you would encourage communities to do? Or kailangan talaga may kahit maliit na hotel na air-conditioned, na something that's really set up for tourists?

CHEN: 'Yung homestay kasi, parang stopgap lang 'yan, e. That's my point of view. Usually sa mga very rustic, undeveloped destination, 'yan 'yung unang ginagawa just so you can accommodate tourists. Kasi kailangan nilang may matutulugan, 'di ba?

Kasi may risk din 'yan, e. Especially if the guest will be sleeping inside the house, within the residence. And then, naghahalubilo sa mga anak, 'di ba?

So iba-iba kasi 'yung ugali ng mga turista. And not all of them are good people. So magiging vulnerable 'yung mga home owner pagka magpapasok ka lang nang magpapasok na kahit sinong tao. So stopgap lang 'yan.

As much as possible, you need people to invest in lodging facilities na talagang may mga set of guidelines tapos may reporting system. Mayroong profiling system, getting information about the visitors. Para pag may mangyari, you know, madaling ma-address ng local government.

HOWIE: Okay, so that's Sagay. Any places you'd recommend in Luzon?

CHEN: Yeah, Palaui Island. That was like my project for eight years. Although hindi namin naabot 'yung kadulu-duluhan ng modeling but it has gone to leaps and bounds. Kasi ano na sila, three-time awardee na sila ng ASEAN Community-Based Tourism. So awardee na. So it's a validation.

HOWIE: Saan pala Palaui Island? Saan 'yan?

CHEN: In Santa Ana, Cagayan. Nasa dulo ng Luzon.

HOWIE: Northern tip ng Luzon. Okay.

CHEN: Yes. Nandu'n 'yung last kilometer marker. It says 642 — 642 kilometers from Luneta. But it's really worth the trip kasi maganda naman 'yung road trip along the way. Road is really good all the way. And there are hotels kasi ano siya, economic.

HOWIE: Once you get there, what can you do?

CHEN: Well, you can go hiking. They have hiking trails. You can go snorkeling. May marine protected area sila. And during summer, we can even go with the Agtas living on the island when they collect honey from the forest. So you can see how they're doing it.

And then, you can go camping if you don't want to stay in the hotel in the main land. You can go camping. But it's nice to go hiking because it's 70% forest covered, by the way. And they have a Spanish lighthouse right at the northern part of the island. So it's a beautiful place na protected.

HOWIE: 'Yung gubat malapit sa dagat. Malapit sa dagat 'yung gubat?

CHEN: May beach forest pa sila.

HOWIE: Bihira na ngayon sa Pilipinas, ha?

CHEN: Oh, yeah. Actually, Howie, when I was given the task to handle that project, community-based tourism nga, I thought about branding the island, Dream Island. Kasi, well, nu'ng bata-bata ako, madalas naman ako mag-hiking, umakyat ng bundok. Pero para makakita ka ng magandang lugar, magdurusa ka, 'di ba?

Walang kubeta, mahirap matulog, walang hotel, walang mga ganu'n, 'di ba? Magka-camping ka lang, lalamukin ka and all that, 'no? Pero dito kasi, you can stay in an air-conditioned hotel, eat in a nice restaurant, and then, you know, 30 minutes or 20-30 minutes boat ride, you have a place that's 70% forest cover. You can hike with guides. You can snorkel. Yung ganu'n, ha? Hindi ka kailangang magdusa.

But for those who wants nature, you can still stay. May homestay na rin doon at mayroon ding campsite. Pero 'yung ibang medyo gusto ng comfort, you can stay in the mainland and just spend the day on the island. Kaya nga Dream Island 'yung branding kasi it's focused on that.

HOWIE: Isla siya, 'no? I've never been there, Chen, no? But is it larger than Boracay? Can it take a lot of travelers?

CHEN: Smaller. Smaller than Boracay 'yan. Maliit lang -Even smaller. Smaller than Boracay. And there are only like 900 plus people living on the island. Kinokontrol na rin 'yung population nila kasi nga,  the more people there are, the greater the impact. But it's something to see.

HOWIE: Iniisip ko 'yung mga nakikinig sa 'yo ngayon, baka biglang magpuntahan doon tapos limitado pala 'yung puwedeng mag-stay roon.

CHEN: They will have to book in advance. You cannot just walk in.

HOWIE: Kontrolado din 'yung numbers na pupunta roon para hindi naman---

CHEN: Search nila sa internet, 'no? Tapos naba-vlog na rin siya. Popular na rin siya kasi towards the end of my engagement, nag-shoot ang Survivor ng two seasons doon. So kaya naging popular 'yung island. Nakilala 'yung island.

But prior to that, wala talagang nakakaalam. And that was intentional on our part because we just wanted to prepare the people. We wanted to prepare the island, train guides, introduce different enterprises para sila kikita. Kasi ganu'n ang sakit ng mga ibang destinations natin, iba 'yung kumikita, papasok 'yung turista. Tapos, you know, nanonood lang 'yung mga local. They don't know what the rules are.

HOWIE: So isa 'yan sa mga lugar na binangko mo muna habang binabago 'yung turismo. So parang naging laboratoryo mo.

CHEN: Oh yeah. That's true. Naging laboratory namin for eight years 'yun kasi diyan kami nag-test ng mga approach and tool. Now we're replicating it. We're improving on the model.

Hindi siya perfect, 'no? Mayroon din mga weakness until now. Kasi umalis nga ako. Hindi namin natapos. Pero because of those learning na i-improve namin 'yung model, 'yung business model. Ecotourism business model. That's what it's called.

HOWIE: Okay. My very last question: Paano ba maging responsabling turista o biyahero?

CHEN: Maraming paraan. Some of them can be as simple as understanding anong magiging impact mo when you go to a place, 'no? Number one, basura na ipapasok mo. Pangalawa, 'yung trampling. Trampling, 'yung pagtapak mo will create an impact e. Kasi kung magha-hiking ka, kung bago sapatos mo at maputik 'yung daan, gagawa ka ng sarili mong daan, 'di ba?

Tapak ka roon sa may damu-damo. That is creating an impact. So ganu'n ang mangyayari. So also, second 'yung following the rules set by the local government or by the community.

One example, nudism. Wala namang Pilipino masyadong nag-e-engage diyan. Pero may nakita na rin ako na nag-vlog. Batanes pa, kung saan 99% yata ng tao are really Catholics. So nag-post siya.

At lahat na nakapunta sa Batanes, makikilala 'yung picture niya na hubo't-hubad siya. Pero 'yung mga tao, hindi nila alam. Pero pinayagan ng guide. Bakit ganu'n? Kung ayaw ng lugar na maghubo't hubad diyan, respetuhin mo.

HOWIE: Kailangang maging sensitive sa local culture.

'Yung unang binanggit mo, Chen, 'yung tungkol sa basura, that's a more common problem than nudity siguro. Kasi maraming biyahero at turista nagdadala ng baon, mga tsitsirya na naka-plastic. And of course, maraming lugar lalo na 'yung mga malalayo. Would you advise tourists not to bring plastic waste o 'yung mga baon na magiging plastic litter? Kasi 'yan madalas 'yung nakikita kahit sa loob ng mga marine wildlife. 'Pag binuksan mo 'yung tiyan ng mga patay na wildlife, mga balyena, madalas mo makakita ng plastic sa loob.

CHEN: Isa 'yan sa in-address namin doon sa Ecotourism Philippines business model. When you have an organized group which will be the beneficiary of the enterprises, one of the groups that we form are people who can cook food, mga local caterer doon sa community para maiwasan 'yung pagpasok ng pagkain from outside.

Kasi economic leakage din 'yan. Kasi na-realize namin,  even if it's just a sitio, barangay, not even a municipality, kino-compute ko 'yung potential income. And na-realize ko, on all sites na ginawan ko ng projection, food is number one or the highest source of income.

So sabi ko, gawin natin na package, kasama na 'yung pagkain, 'yung local community ang magluluto. At makokontrol pa nila 'yung type ng pagkain na isisilbi sa turista na you're showcasing local cuisine, 'di ba? Or 'yung fresh catch of the day, et cetera. Or maybe locavore within the barangay lang, or local produce nila sa farm nila.

HOWIE: Okay, that's wise advice. We want to thank you, Chen, for your time and especially for your service to communities that want to be tourist destinations. Maraming salamat, Chen Mencias, environmental planner and tourism expert. Mabuhay ka. Maraming-maraming salamat.

CHEN: Thank you, Howie. Thank you.