Leila de Lima's long and peculiar prison solitude

[NOTE: This is part 1 of a two-part series.]

Not originally a cat lover, Leila de Lima adopted stray cats in prison to keep her company. She took several home after her release and one of them insisted on joining her for this interview.

Otherwise, she was in solitude for nearly seven years while imprisoned in Camp Crame and one of the rare VIP inmates without a mobile phone. "I wanted to follow the rules," she tells Howie Severino. She also was not allowed access to the Internet, so she kept up with the outside world through print newspapers and printouts of online articles delivered by her senate staff.

She says she never lost faith in the judicial system, which she's confident will vindicate her and declare her innocent of all charges.

HOWIE: Magandang araw, pod mates. Howie Severino muli na nagpapaalala na nakakatalino ang mahabang attention span. After nearly seven years in prison, former senator Leila de Lima has resumed life in freedom. How has she adjusted to the outside world? How will she now use her stature and international platform? She joins us today. Magandang araw sa inyo, Attorney de Lima.

DE LIMA: Yes. Magandang araw, Howie, saka sa mga nanonood sa iyo. Wow. It's so nice to see you again.

HOWIE: And it's great to see you in your home. Nasa sala kayo ngayon ng bahay n'yo. Finally at home.

DE LIMA: Yes. Yes. And I'm well-adjusted now, actually. Unlike the first week. Talagang halos hindi ako makatulog the first few nights because I still keep on remembering actually my home there at the PNP Custodial Center. But now I'm adjusted and I've been so busy.

HOWIE: Okay. I want to ask you about this adjustment. Kasi it's now February. You were released last November.

DE LIMA: Yes.

HOWIE: So tatlong buwan nang nakalipas.

DE LIMA: Yes.

HOWIE: So kumusta na kayo? What have you been doing in these past three months? And what has been the biggest adjustment for you to being free again after nearly seven years in prison?

DE LIMA: My first adjustment, of course, is my environment. Because from a life of solitude and environment, a solitary environment, then I'm suddenly plunged into the real world of noise, of busy schedule. So that was really my first adjustment.

I found it difficult really to cope with that. And then, the traffic and all that. So I've been so busy with private meetings, with speaking engagements, with small reunions with friends, with relatives. And I went to our home city, Iriga City. And visited my mom twice already. And I spent several days there in Christmas. And it was my happiest but very emotional holidays ever because I got to be with my mom, because we were not able to see each other for more than four years. So that was pretty emotional the several days I had with her during Christmas.

But even if I was there, napaka-busy ko pa rin doon sa dami rin ng mga taong pumupunta, wanted to see me, wanted to really say hi. And then, most of them are even teary-eyed. And so I thank them all for their prayers and their compassion.

HOWIE: So I wanted to ask you about your visits with your mom. Sabi n'yo nga, you've seen her twice already, you visited her twice already. So she must be quite aged by now. So how much of your ordeal have you shared with her?

DE LIMA: She doesn't know.

HOWIE: She doesn't know.

DE LIMA: Until now that I was locked up in jail. What she was told by my siblings is that I was just in the United States for studies. So she didn't know. But you know how I could feel that she knows. Maybe it's the mother's instincts. So hindi lang siya nagsasalita.

Although my mom is now semi-demented, sometimes she would recognize and sometimes she would be lucid, but sometimes she's now a childlike person. But she always remembers me, she always recognizes me. The same thing with my siblings.

But other people, sometimes she would recognize, sometimes she would not. So she's semi-demented. And so she never knew, really. That's what we know that she never knew that I came from jail.

HOWIE: Was this your decision? Or was this a family decision not to let her know? I'm sure this is such a big decision on your part, right? Kasi may pros and cons, of course, 'no?

DE LIMA: It was a family decision. But it was my siblings, my two brothers and one sister who brought to the idea, "Let's not tell mom anymore. It might exacerbate her health condition. Baka lalo raw mapadali." Because we even thought four years ago, she would leave us na that's why I had to ask for an emergency furlough. I had to go there to Iriga. For 24 hours, I was allowed by the court to visit her because we thought she was saying goodbye already. Thankfully, she held on. Thankfully, she's surviving. And when I was still in jail, that's part of my prayers that, "Sana naman, Lord, hintayin pa ako ni Mommy na makalaya." And it was an answered prayer. Yes.

HOWIE: Yes, quite a blessing, 'no? So, Attorney de Lima, para kang kinalas sa lipunan ng pitong taon, ano? You know, I'm sure you're familiar with the tale of Rip Van Winkle pero natulog naman 'yun. Pero ikaw, you were in isolation for a long time. Hindi ka nakalalabas except for, you know, you just mentioned you're allowed to visit your mom. I think you were also allowed to go out for some of your hearings. Pero sabi mo sa ibang interviews, wala kang cellphone sa loob ng preso. Wala kang access sa internet.

DE LIMA: Yes.

HOWIE: Lalo na noong pandemya, wala ka man lang dayo. Ngayon na nakagagala kayo ulit, sabi mo nga, you're so busy socially, professionally, you know, you're getting back to the grind as a lawyer, have you noticed any big changes in the world outside of prison?

DE LIMA: Not really. In a way, it's still the same world, especially in the realm of politics. Although it's getting more exciting with all of this noise, with all of these bickerings. So it's still the same world. Although I could not really witness that totally when I was there because as you said, no internet, no TV, no radio, just really newspapers.

My access to news was through print media. And then, my staff also used to send me what they call comms or media pouch, where they collate and print notable articles that I got to see. But so I was updated, but not completely. I could not really completely see the whole scenery, the whole scene, the whole environment of what was happening outside.

So there's not much really I miss except the personal side of things when I was deprived of the mundane things, which I used to think of them as merely mundane. But they're not. They're so important to me. Going to the market, cooking, being with my sons, being with my grandchildren. Those, you know, the realization that they're all so important for me.

Because that's the whole idea, Howie. The whole agenda of my persecutors was to silence me, to break my spirit, to keep me out of the world so that I would stop making noise on the things that held dear, the advocacies that I've been propagating.

HOWIE: Gusto kong balikan itong ano na-deprive kayo ng internet access and mobile phone. I know that's the rule 'pag nasa preso. But we do know that, that rule is commonly violated. I mean even non-VIP inmates have access to mobile. I know this because some inmates message journalists all the time from inside Bilibid, et cetera.

So in a way, you got special treatment in that way. And not just those jailed for, you know, criminal charges or convicted, but even those, 'yung mga political cases, as we know na mayroon silang access sa internet and sa cellphone. So why were you deprived of a cellphone when others were not?

DE LIMA: I'm perfectly aware of that. Even in the Custodial Center before had access to that. My guards would tell me that they had cellphones.

But it was a personal decision to follow the rules. My staff would tell me, "Ma'am, kung gugustuhin n'yo, madali hong mag-smuggle ng cellphone sa inyo. We can very well do that. Madali lang po." But I told them, napagalitan ko pa nga sila. I really, told them, "No, no. Let's follow the rules. I want to follow the rules."

Anyway, I can still communicate to the outside world through my communications, letters, birthday greetings, letters of condolences, congratulatory letters. So that's how I communicated to the whole world.

Maski 'yung mga sa tweet, sa Twitter, 'yung mga sa X, nagtu-tweet din ako noon. But through my staff, I just write it down. And then send them out. Ask a guard to send it out because hindi naman bawal na nagco-communicate to them through handwritten materials. So they're the ones who post those messages of mine, my statements of mine via FB or Twitter. And they're the ones who disseminate them to media. So that was a personal decision.

HOWIE: I wanna ask you about that because it's just one of these personal decisions that have kind of not just intrigued others but maybe even amazed na pinili n'yo 'yung iba't ibang aspeto ng inyong oppression. Sabi nga, you could have easily had a cellphone and had access through mobile if you had wanted to pero gusto n'yong sumunod sa rules.

And then also I know that you were traveling abroad when you had an inkling na maaaresto kayo. So you had a choice actually to seek political asylum overseas para lang maiwasan 'yung maaresto at makulong. At maiintindihan 'yan ng mga kaalyado n'yo siguro kahit 'yung mga bumoto sa inyo. I mean, it hasn't been the first time that someone has sought asylum overseas.

Pero pinili n'yo umuwi to face the music, 'ika nga. At the same time, you also said that akala mo ilang araw ka lang makukulong at makalalaya ka kaagad pero umabot nga ng pitong taon. But what I'm saying is you've shown a remarkable faith in the system.

DE LIMA: Yes.

HOWIE: Which from many outsiders has failed you. And looking back now, would you have made the same decisions?

DE LIMA: Yes. Because, you know, Howie, I'm innocent. So you're correct. In December, when I went to the United States to receive an award from the Foreign Policy Magazine, from there, I went to Germany for a speaking engagement. That was December 2016.

And as you said, I had an inkling already. I had sources within the DOJ who relayed the message to me that the DOJ would soon be filing cases against me. And they would be arresting me. That's what then President Duterte was aiming for.

He really wanted me locked up in jail. But I chose to come back because I'm innocent. I was not afraid to face the charges against me. And even if the justice system has initially failed me, I still maintain my faith in it because I felt, and until now, that it is through the justice system that I would attain my vindication.

There's no other way that I would attain vindication. I have to be absolved by the courts. The courts had to say that those charges were baseless so that I could redeem my name that were so destroyed, that were so vilified by my oppressors and persecutors. So it's a choice that I have to put faith in the justice system.

And as a lawyer, I have to. It would mean a lot if I decided to turn back from the justice system and try to demean also the justice system. It is through the justice system. There is no other way that I could attain vindication.

In fact, my first two cases had been dismissed already. I was acquitted in those two cases. There's this remaining case where I am out on bail on provisional liberty. You've seen the reports about some or many of the inmate witnesses against me have signified their intention to recant.

Now, that would be really the start of my vindication that this lying, these misperjured witnesses are now getting the courage, mustering enough courage to tell us the truth. I want them to tell the truth so that the people would know about my innocence.

HOWIE: Okay. But when you were overseas and thinking about returning to seek vindication and face the judicial system, did you think that prison was your only risk or a long time in prison was the only risk? Because at that time, 2016, ang dami nang namamatay sa so-called drug war and we know that ilang buwan nang nagra-rant si Pangulong Duterte about you. So he was not fond of you, to say the least. Were there other fears aside from prison when you were deciding to go home?

DE LIMA: My friends had cautioned me, "It would be risky for you. Alam mo naman ang kapasidad ng chief oppressor mo. So you can be targeted anytime. And even if you're in prison, you can be targeted." Yes, the fear was there but my longing for vindication far outweighed those fears, that far outweighs those fears. I should move on. I should go on proclaiming my innocence.

My cat is here. One of my cats is here. That's one of the five cats. That's one of the five cats I adopted.

HOWIE: Which cat is this? Did you name your cats?

DE LIMA: His name is Otto. I brought home five cats from Crame.

HOWIE: Yeah. Now that you brought this up, I wanted to also ask you about life in prison. I know that you had something like 20 cats and all of these were adopted? Or mayroon bang dinala sa preso, galing sa bahay? Were you a cat lover before already?

DE LIMA: No. I was never a cat lover. I was a dog lover. Before I got incarcerated, I had only dogs. I didn't have cats because my dogs hated cats, so I hated na rin cats. But when I was incarcerated, I had no choice because cats kept coming to my quarter, especially during mealtime. So there's more than 20.

Most of them were actually just stray who would just appear there in my detention cell. About three or four were gifted to me by my staff and by my friend. In fact, well, two of them are among the three that I get to bring home here. So much as I would want to bring home everyone, each and every single cat that I had there, I could not do that. There's simply no space in my house and there are dogs here also.

So I just brought home my five favorites and Otto happened to be one of them. You know why it's called Otto? Because you see, I had movie privileges just like the other detainees there. Every Saturday, I was allowed to watch movie from one to five in the afternoon. Nu'ng kitten pa siya, one of the guards brought that to me. "Ma'am, kawawa naman po, iniwanan po nu'ng ina. So paki-adopt." Because they know that I've been adopting cats there.

So at that time when this was given, this was given to me, I just finished watching A Man Called Otto. I named the cat, Otto.

HOWIE: So how did the cats affect your life in prison?

DE LIMA: Oh, they were so, so significant in terms of my mental health, in terms of keeping my sanity intact. They're such a joy, even if makukulit, you know, they have different characters just like human beings. But they really made my life there beautiful. They soothe the sadness that I felt at times because I played with them, I fed them, and so very important. These are blessings to me also, Howie.

HOWIE: Lahat tayo na-lockdown, ang dami nagkaroon ng pets. So you're one of millions around the world who turned to pets for our mental health, basically, to maintain whatever was left of it during the pandemic.

I want to ask also what you think was your darkest time or moments in prison?

Unang bahagi pa lang 'yan podmates. Listen in tomorrow for part 2 of my conversation with former Senator Leila de Lima.

[READ PART 2 HERE]