What makes the 2023 BSKE unique? Election watchdog LENTE explains

The October 30 barangay and Sangguniang Kabataan elections will be manual. Could its successful conduct return us to the pre-automated system for the next elections? Atty. Ona Caritos, executive director of election watchdog LENTE, weighs in in this episode of The Howie Severino Podcast aired on October 5, 2023.

 

HOWIE: Magandang araw, podmates! Howie Severino here na nagpapaalala na nakakatalino ang mahabang attention span. Eleksyon na naman. Nararamdaman niyo ba? Sa October 30, boboto ulit tayo. Ngayon naman para sa barangay leaders natin at para sa Sangguniang Kabataan representatives. Para pag-usapan nito, kasama natin si Atty. Ona Carritos, executive director ng LENTE, o ang Legal Network for Truthful Elections. Magandang araw sa 'yo, Atty. Ona.

ATTY. ONA: Magandang araw, Howie. Magandang araw, mga ka-podmate.

HOWIE: Huli tayong nag-usap, Attorney, April 2022, tungkol sa national election sa susunod na buwan, May 2022. Napaka-emotional ng eleksyon na iyon, sobrang nakakapagod. Pero ang grupo niyo, ang LENTE, yung election watchdog, walang luxury ng escape sa eleksyon. Actually, marami akong kilala.

ATTY. ONA: Bawal mapagod.

HOWIE: Oo, sobrang exasperated, frustrated, etcetera kasi hindi nanalo 'yung kandidato nila, etcetera. Pero kayo, you have to get to work right away kasi mayroon the next year, this year may eleksyon. So, barangay and SK elections.

But remind us, how important are these elections, 'yung barangay and SK elections? Kasi it's been a while, na-postpone ito at na-postpone. I know your group opposed the postponement pero here we are.

Nagkaroon pa ng Supreme Court ruling that the postponement was unconstitutional pero tinuloy pa rin 'yung postponement. But well, finally nandito na 'yung eleksyon later this month. So just give us a quick refresher about the barangay elections. What's at stake?

ATTY. ONA: Bakit mahalaga ang barangay at SK Election? Lagi naming sinasabi sa LENTE na ang barangay at ang SK, 'yang unit na 'yan, 'yang government unit natin na 'yan ang gobyerno para sa ating mga Pilipino sa pang-araw-araw nating buhay. Hindi naman natin makakausap, makakadaupang-palad si Mayor, si Congressman. Suwerte ka in your lifetime if you get to talk or to approach a senator, a president at that.

Pero 'yung barangay captain natin, 'yung mga SK chairperson natin, 'yung mga kagawads natin, sila ang gobyerno para sa atin. So 'yung governance o 'yung pamamahala na raranasin natin sa araw-araw, 'yan ang barangay. Kaya 'yan napakalaga.

Kasi 'yan ang pamamahala, 'yan ang gobyerno para sa ating lahat. At nakita natin 'yan nu'ng COVID lalo na nitong pinagdaanan nating pandemic, gaano kahalaga 'yung napakaayos na mga barangay at SK officials. Nakita natin 'yung pagdi-distribute ng ayuda. Kung maayos ang barangay officials mo, maayos ang distribution ng ayuda, maayos 'yung pag-distribute ng mga APOR or yung mga ID. Pero kung hindi maayos, olats ang mga barangay at SK official mo, talagang ramdam mo at talagang mumurahin mo eh 'yung mga barangay at SK official. So 'yun ang kahalagahan ng ating barangay at SK elections ngayong parating na October 30.

HOWIE: Okay. Well, I think... At karamihan naman sa atin naiintindihan 'yan because we live in communities where there are these community services, these grassroots public services, marami sa atin nakatanggap nga ng ayuda. So you're right, napakaimportante 'yan.

That's why curious ako na considering how important it is at nakita nga natin 'yan during the pandemic, parang at least here, nasa Batangas ako, parang wala naman akong napapansin masyado na nangangampanya. On my Facebook feed I'm not seeing too many ads. It's not part of conversations. Bakit kaya?

Napagod ba sa huling election? Because it was so... it took a lot out of us. Ang laki ng energy na pinuhunan natin doon. Could that be a reason?

ATTY. ONA: Ano, e, feeling namin hindi napagod, e. Ang ano nga namin mas invested ang mga tao 'pag barangay at SK elections 'yung pinag-uusapan. Siguro 'yung malaking difference dito, Howie, last year, wala tayong tinatawag na premature campaigning na election offense kasi nagkaroon tayo, 'di ba, ng Penera vs Comelec na sinabi ng ating Supreme Court na wala nang election offense sa premature campaigning. Pero ngayong barangay at SK election, nagkaroon ng standing or opinion ng ating Commission on Elections na hindi applicable ang Penera versus Comelec sa election na manual, na 'yun ang ating barangay at SK election.

So ngayon kaya wala ka masyado nakikita sa social media o walang masyado nagpaparada sa labas ng ating mga bahay kasi bawal pa silang mangampanya.

Ang campaign period for our barangay and SK candidates, October 19-28 pa. At kung sila ang mangangampanya ngayon, sila ay kakasuhan ng ating Comelec at ng kung sino mang interested or concerned individual, maaari silang kasuhan ng premature campaigning.

Kaya parang hindi pa election kasi hindi pa nagsisimula 'yung mga usual campaign gimmicks na sanay tayong nakita 'pag election.

HOWIE: So in other words, talagang iniksian 'yung campaign period para sa darating na eleksyon. And the good news about this is mukhang sumusunod 'yung mga kandidato.

ATTY. ONA: 'Yan, nakakatuwa 'yan.

HOWIE: Yes. Oo, there's always been premature campaigning restrictions naman pero parang maraming hindi sumusunod di ba at hindi napaparusahan for premature campaigning. Of course, in the past, dinedebate kung ano ang ibig sabihin ng premature campaigning.

But finally, matutuloy itong barangay and SK elections, bakit ba siya na-postpone in the first place?

ATTY. ONA: Since 2010, lagi ang schedule ng ating barangay at SK pagkatapos ng May presidential or May midterm elections. Pero lagi ang sasabihin ng Kongreso natin, "Ay pagod na 'yung mga tao. Kaka-eleksyon lang. Ay nag-away-away pa 'yung mga tao, sobrang divisive ng environment, mag-e-election ulit, magiging mas divisive pa."

Lagi napo-postpone ang barangay at SK. So since 2010 'yan. Nitong huli nga na postponement na ginawa ng Kongreso natin, itong December 2022 na pinostpone to this October, buti na lang sinabi na ng Supreme Court natin na "Hindi puwedeng ganyan lagi ang ginagawa ng ating Kongreso."

Minention nga ru'n sa kasong 'yun na hindi puwedeng reason 'yung wala masyadong panahon, i-implement 'yung mga project, divisive 'yung environment, kaka-election lang, pagod pa 'yung mga tao. Talagang minention ng Supreme Court natin na "Oh, next time hindi niyo na puwedeng gamitin 'yang mga reason na 'yan to postpone yet again the barangay at SK elections."

Talagang nag-laydown ng guidelines ang ating Supreme Court na ito ang mga condition for Congress to postpone the barangay at SK elections yet again. Kaya 'yun lagi naming sinasabi sa LENTE. "Itong term ng ating mga barangay at SK officials, hanggang December 2025 lang. 'Yung lagi nating expectation na ma-extend naman 'yan, mapo-postpone na naman, hindi na 'yan natin makikita kasi nagsabi na ang ating Supreme Court na hindi 'yan puwede basta-basta ma-postpone."

Kaya lagi namin sinasabi, Howie, na "Pag-isipan natin sino 'yung iboboto sa barangay at SK ngayon kasi wala na silang luxury or oras na mag-aral pa. May dalawang taon lang sila to implement their projects and programs for their respective barangays.

HOWIE: You would think 'pag naghatol 'yung Supreme Court, that would be the final word. Pero that's what many people cannot understand. Bakit na-postpone pa rin kahit sinabi na ng Supreme Court na unconstitutional 'yung postponement?

ATTY. ONA: Oo, kasi 'yung nangyari diyan, ano na, e, December dapat talaga 'yung conduct ng eleksyon natin from the last postponement na 2020. The first Monday of December 2022. Pero dahil nag-decide ng Supreme Court natin around March, kung hindi ako nagkakamali, hindi naman nag-o-operate in a vacuum ang ating Supreme Court, hindi niya raw puwedeng pabalikin ang oras.

So sinabi na lang talaga ng court na moving forward, gawin natin o mangyayari 'yung election na October. Pero mali 'yung pagpo-postpone na ginawa na December. So hindi naman kasi puwedeng mag-operate si Supreme Court na "Gawin natin ng March agad 'yung election" kasi naintindihan niya rin na may preparations na kailangan gawin ang ating Commission on Elections para sa pagka-conduct ng election.

So kahit ano, parang moot siya, pero at the same time, it would affect the conduct of future barangay and SK elections. Nagkataon lang late lumabas ang decision ng Supreme Court natin as to the postponement of the December 2022 barangay and SK elections.

HOWIE: So logistically, it would have been impossible to hold them anyway kahit may hatol na ganoon 'yung Supreme Court. So for very practical reasons, hindi rin magagawa. Finally tuloy na. May 42,000 na positions at stake at least sa barangay. I haven't seen any figures for the SK.

So 1.4 million ang nag-file ng candidacy. So napakarami. Napakalaki ng mga responsibilidad, mga sakit sa ulo ng mga uupo. But you wonder what's motivating so many. I mean we want to think public service, gusto nila magserbisyo. I mean, ideally, that's the case.

But in a practical sense, ano ba 'yung mga perk, benefits ng pagiging isang barangay official? Kasi we know that di naman mataas ang suweldo niyan, very low, halos allowance lang 'yan. Nabasa ko parang may minimum rate of P1,000 per month ang barangay chair. Chair na 'yun.

And then, mas mababa siyempre 'yung mga ibang positions. You got barangay kagawad, mga Konsehal, secretary, treasurer. And then, of course, 'yung mga SK na they only receive several hundred pesos. But they control budgets, 'no? Maaaring maraming posibleng perks and maybe even opportunities for those who are not well-intentioned.

Aminin natin, may mga kandidato na maaaring may hidden agenda. They have access to resources of the government 'pag manalo sila.

ATTY. ONA: Siguro isang practical na pagtingin diyan, 'yung access talaga sa power kasi kailangan natin tandaan na kahit non-partisan ang barangay at SK election, sila ang frontliner ng mga LGUs natin. Sila ang tina-tap or basically, sila ang coordinator sa kani-kanilang barangay pagdating ng midterm, pagdating ng mga local election.

So powerful ang mga barangay at SK officials because they're the coordinators of the LGUs. Kapag sila ay nakatamang gamble or tamang bet na 'yung sinuportahan nilang mayor, yan 'yung nanalo, maraming projects at maraming puwedeng mapunta sa kanilang barangay na resources.

So aside from the honorarium na hindi naman ganoon kalakihan, iba rin talaga 'yung access sa power at sa resources ng mga barangay at SK officials natin given na they're important role in the midterm, the national and the local elections. Because they are the coordinators, sila ang magde-deliver ng boto pagdating sa midterm, local and national elections.

HOWIE: And so therefore ang kikilos dito hindi lang mga kandidato and their own campaign machines pero 'yung mga backer nila na mga politiko rin. Kayo watchdog kayo, 'yung LENTE. So what are you actually watching here? Ano bang kailangan bantayan? How can citizens get involved? How are you educating people about this election?

ATTY. ONA: 'Yung kakabanggit mo lang, Howie, isa naming unang binabantayan na dapat walang LGU intervention in the barangay and SK elections. Kasi supposedly non-partisan, e, so dapat walang support directly, kasi indirect, ang hirap hulihin 'yan. Pero 'yung pagtataas ng kamay, pagkakaroon ng programa in the barangay na kasama 'yung tumatakbong barangay officials, 'yan 'yung binabantayan ng LENTE. Kasi yan 'yung tinatawag natin na abuse of state resources o ASR na tinatawag.

Kasi ang realidad, 'yung mga incumbent ngayon na mga barangay officials, marami sa kanila tumatakbo rin. So sila nasa puwesto at maaaring magamit nila 'yung puwesto nila to their advantage, to their electoral advantage. So 'yan 'yung una naming binabantayan na huwag mag-commit ng ASR or abuse of state resources. Kasi isang standard ng isang maayos na eleksyon ay dapat competitive ang playing field or level. Pero kung may mga incumbent tayo na lamang o tine-take advantage 'yung kanilang nasa posisyon, ayaw natin 'yun. So 'yan 'yung una naming binabantayan natin.

Pangalawa, premature campaigning. Talagang saludo kami sa Comelec in taking a definite position as to premature campaigning. Nakita rin namin how Comelec is trying also to monitor online campaigning. At ito 'yung first election na nakita namin na "Ah, nagmo-monitor ng online campaigning si Comelec. So it's a good start, it's a good template for them to replicate in future elections lalo na may parating tayong midterm ng 2025. So 'yan din 'yung binabantayan namin.

Pangatlo, parte kami ng Task Force Kontrabigay. Malaking problema natin lagi 'pag elekson, 'di ba, vote buying, vote selling. So ngayon si Comelec mayroon silang ginawang Task Force Kontrabigay na whole-of-nation approach ang kanilang ginagamit.

Parang "Ano ba, Comelec, gumagamit ng whole-of-nation approach?" First time nating naririnig 'yan. So may tatlo silang modalities to address vote buying, vote selling, deterrence, information, and prosecution. So we're monitoring those three instances or we're monitoring those aspects of our elections, of this barangay and SK elections.

HOWIE: So 'yung vote buying and selling, dati in the old days, madaling ma-monitor or mas madaling ma-monitor 'yan dahil money was physically changing hands. So you would actually see real bills in envelopes, etcetera, may mga video. These days who would be so stupid to do that when you have GCash, online, bank transfer? So many ways to do this electronically.

And parang in terms of catching them, I can imagine ano ba 'yung chances na may makakahuli ka 'pag ganu'n na 'yung paraan?

ATTY. ONA: Mahirap siya kasi siyempre gusto natin ang prosecution o 'yung paghuli is real time. Pero 'yung discussions ngayon sa Task Forse Kontrabigay, dahil hindi naman puwedeng simultaneous din 'yung pagbibigay ng data ng ating mga financial institutions. Siyempre mayroon tayong bank secrecy law.

And BSP siyempre mahigpit din. So ang ginagawa ni Comelec Task Force Kontrabigay ngayon is talagang closely coordinating with these financial institutions para kahit papaano, for example GCash, mayroon namang ways to identify na itong number na ito ay nagamit for vote buying. May presumptions na "Ngayong eleksyon ang daming pinamigay na P500. Bakit pinamigay ng maraming P500, e, in previous months hindi gumagalaw ang account mo?"

So may mga red flags na na-identify si Comelec na it can be the start of investigation which is a good start because in previous elections, investigation pa nga lang, wala na tayong pinag-uusapan 'pag we're talking about vote buying and vote selling. Ngayon kahit papaano they're trying to keep up with the times of trying to stop vote buying kahit sa mga online transaction.

HOWIE: Excuse me. Balikan ko lang 'yung responsibilidad ng mga tech companies, these companies that enable online transfer. They can actually be compelled to reveal that information? Kasi mayroon ding Data Privacy Act, 'di ba. I'm not sure what role that plays in this whole situation.

ATTY. ONA: 'Yun din 'yung talagang mahigpit at talagang pinagdedebatihan ngayon sa Task Force Kontrabigay kasi Comelec would want the assistance of these agencies, these institutions. But at the same time, they also would want to respect data privacy laws and bank secrecy laws kaya hindi siya 'yung simultaneous na ibibigay ang data.

Most probably if prosecutions or investigations would happen, it will be after the elections. Kasi dadaan pa 'yan sa proseso. 'Yung pagre-release ng data, pagre-request ni Comelec ng data from these financial institutions and Bangko Sentral for example, matagal na proseso pero at least, nandiyan 'yung coordination amongst these agencies and bodies to investigate vote buying and vote selling.

HOWIE: Mayroon ba talagang nahuli, na-prosecute from the last election for vote buying?

ATTY. ONA: Wala. Kaya napakaimportante nitong Task Force Kontrabigay. And ito 'yung ano rin, realidad ng prosecution ng vote buying, vote selling kasi matagal na rin namin 'yan tinututukan sa LENTE. And 10 taon na rin kaming nagtuturo ng mga tao paano gumawa ng affidavit, ano 'yung mga ebidensiya na kailangan if they want to file cases for vote buying and vote selling.

Unfortunately, after the election, may realidad ng buhay ang mga tao, e. Babalik sila sa kanilang normal na ginagawa, takot silang mag-file ng kaso so napakaimportante sa amin sa LENTE nu'ng pumasok 'yung police sa Task force Kontrabigay at sinabi nila sa Comelec, "Nagpa-file naman kami ng kaso pero pagdating sa fiscal, kunwari nag-warrantless arrest sila, hinahanapan sila ng guidelines ni fiscal for the warrantless arrest.

So ngayon si police, sa tulong ni Comelec mayroon ng  guidelines on warrantless arrest. So 'yung mga police sila talagang in the best position to go after vote buyers and vote sellers kasi trabaho nila 'yan.

And after election they're mandated to still continue with the investigation and prosecution unlike common people na babalik sa mga normal na gawain or normal na buhay nila. So we see the important role of the police in the investigation and prosecution of vote buyers and vote sellers. Kailangan lang talaga tutukan dahil nawawala 'yung interes, e,  after elections.

HOWIE: Oo. Well, good luck on that. I can imagine the challenge that's going to be.

ATTY. ONA: It is.

HOWIE: I'm glad that at least may intent na manghuli and to remind people na mali 'yun. But you know, we've all heard others in the past say including mga religious leaders, tanggapin 'yung pera pero bumoto ayon sa konsensya. What do you think of that argument? Kasi pera naman daw ng bayan 'yan and 'pag binigay sa 'yo 'yan, parang you're entitled to it pero don't feel you're beholden dahil 'yun nga, baka nakaw na pera 'yan so just vote according to your conscience.

So 'pag inalukan, what is the vote seller supposed to do? Because I know in recent discussions, parang naging priority ay 'yung vote buyer, 'yan ang dapat focus ng law enforcment, not the vote seller. What should the attitude of voters be 'pag inalukan sila ng pera?

ATTY. ONA: Kami, we respect the position of the church but for us, that position, parang ano, e, let it slide. Let the election offense slide. Let the election offense of vote buying slide. It's still an election offense, it's still a crime. So we respect that position of the Church but for us the position should be you say no to the money or whatever good or service is being offered in exchange for your vote because it's still a crime.

Kahit iboto mo 'yung gusto mo but you still receive money or any good or service in exchange for your vote, it's still a crime. And we want to respect the rule of law. So ayaw natin nu'ng ganu'ng posisyon.

HOWIE: That's clear. So this election is going to be kind of a throwback election in the sense na magiging manual siya? Nasanay na rin 'yung mga botante sa automated elections and some younger voters probably don't know, have no experience with manual voting and they only know automated elections.

So how different will this be? Ano naman ang dapat bantayan pagdating sa manual elections?

ATTY. ONA: Okay. Manual election, we're used to shading the circle beside the name of the candidates we want to vote for. But this is a manual election so ang gagawin natin na isulat 'yung mga pangalan na gusto natin iboto for the barangay and SK elections.

Ang dapat bantayan 'yung mga assistor o 'yung mga nag-a-assist sa mga botante na kamag-anak, kasama sa bahay or any electoral board. Kasi 'yun ang lagi naming nakikitang paraan ng pandaraya. 'Yung mga assistor ay mga watcher.

And siyempre alam naman natin 'pag watcher ang assistor, hindi tayo sigurado kung 'yung sinusulat ng assistor slash watcher, 'yung talaga 'yung boto ng botante. So 'yan 'yung dapat unang bantayan — 'yung mga assistor.

Pangalawa, na 'yung bumoboto talaga ay 'yung botante talaga. Kasi we've seen in the past, individuals posting as this so-and-so voter. And may mga natanggap na tayong report about this na mayroon nang bumoto sa pangalan niya so we have to look out for that. Pero toka rin ng ating mga electoral board member na sana mas bantayan nila 'yung bumoboto. I-check nila 'yung identification, mas i-verify nila 'yung identity ng botante roon sa hawak nilang election day computerized voters' list. So 'yun.

Pangatlo, kailangan tandaan na bawal na mangampanya on the day of the election. So kapag mayroon tayong nakikitang nangangampanya on the day of the election, 'yan dapat isumbong natin sa police kasi sa premises ng mga voting center na madalas ay mga public elementary schools, may mga police diyan for the security. So isumbong po natin sa mga police if we see people still campaigning on the day of the elections.

HOWIE: Okay. 'Yung barangay officials, malinaw naman sa lahat o sa karamihan 'yung value nila, 'yung serbisyo nila. Iba sa Sangguniang Kabataan. That's been subject to more debate. May mga nag-a-advocate nga na i-abolish na lang 'yung SK.

May maririnig ka na tinuturuan lang maging trapo 'yung mga kabataan,  etcetera. Of course much of this may not be fair. But anong stand niyo riyan? What is the importance of SK and wouldn't it just be better for young people to run for the barangay elections?

After all, you have barangay officials who were also quite young, 'di ba? And they would also qualified for the SK, why not just include more young people as barangay officials? Kasi kung talagang deserving sila na magserbisyo, di tumakbo sila bilang barangay official.

ATTY. ONA: 'Yung isa sa mga... 'Yung flagship program ng LENTE, 'yung Tayo Na Collaboratory for Young Leaders of Democracy, nakita namin 'yang struggle na 'yan lalo na napo-postpone ang barangay tapos mas napo-postpone ang SK elections dahil nga sa mga criticism against it.

Pero ang lagi naming sinasabi sa TNC ay "Pagbigyan natin ma-implement 'yung SK Reform Law at SK Empowerment Law. Kasi tandaan natin unang election na-implement 'yung SK Reform Law noong 2018." Ano ba 'yung SK Reform Law? One of the main provisions in the SK Reform Law is the anti-dynastyy provision.

So it's the only government unit in the Philippines na bawal tumakbo 'yung mga may kamag-anak na nakaupo sa puwesto, from the national down to the barangay level. So gusto natin makita ma-implement 'yung provision ng batas na 'yan kasi main criticism 'yan na breeding ground ng mga trapo.

But we now have the anti-dynasty provision. So we want that to be implemented and we want it to be studied kung effective ba siya. And nagkaroon na tayo ng SK Empowerment Act kasi nakita na nu'ng pandemic, ang daming mga nagde-decide na mga kagawad kasi ang nakakatanggap lang ng honorary 'yung SK chair.

So there was a recognition na "E, parehas lang nagtatrabaho ang chair at ang kagawad. Why not give this officials honorarium also?" So nagkaroon na rin ng honorarium ang mga SK kagawad natin. Nagkaroon ng budget ang Local Youth Development Office, nagkaroon dapat ng tao sa Local Youth Development Office.

So let's give chance to these two laws to be implemented for the next three or six years. Then, let's have the same discussions siguro, Howie, by 2028 to see if these two laws have been implemented effectively and kung tama pa rin ba 'yung setup natin we need to study by 2028 to see if these two laws have been implemented effectively. Kung tama pa rin ba 'yung setup natin sa SK mimics the same barangay setup kasi mayroon talagang discussion na ang dami, eh, puwede namang dalawa lang, tatlo.

But I think we need to see these two laws implemented first, in operation, then we ask the same questions six years or nine years from now.

HOWIE: So dito sa anti-dynasty law as it's being applied to the SK, itong Sangguniang Kabataan, how do you define a dynasty in this case? Because at the barangay level, many people are related to people in positions, 'di ba? I'm sure mahirap makahanap ng kandidato na walang kamag-anak sa gobyerno o nahalal, 'di ba? Or is the law limited to immediate family or first degree cousins?

ATTY. ONA: Ang parameters ng anti-dynasty, ang anti-dynasty prohibition sa SK Reform Law, ang prohibition is up to the second degree of consanguinity or affinity. So mayroon ganoong definition na kasi laging tinatanong ng mga officials natin, "Anong definition ng anti-dynasty?" Mayroon na tayo sa SK Reform Law, second degree of consanguinity or affinity.

HOWIE: Okay. In a real world sense, so sino 'yung mga bawal? 'Yung may mga first cousin na nakaupo?

ATTY. ONA: Oo, 'yun. Lolo, Lola na nakaupo sa puwesto.

HOWIE: How about in-laws? Kunwari brother-in-law?

ATTY. ONA: Kasama 'yan kasi sa affinity. Kasama sa affinity, second degree.

HOWIE: Okay, kasama 'yun. Second cousin, hindi na kasama 'yun?

ATTY. ONA: Hindi na, hanggang first cousin lang tayo.

HOWIE: Okay, hanggang first cousin. So immediate family, siblings, lolo at lola, first cousin, and then in-laws. Okay, that's quite clear.

Will the outcome of this election influence future elections? Because I do know parang may commitment na 'yung national government sa automated and there's going to be bidding for new vote counting machines. But you know, there were some complaints last year about the automated elections and the vote counting machines?

And there were some breakdowns, etcetera. And this is the first manual elections for a lot of voters. Kung maganda 'yung experience nila rito and let's say, mas kaunti 'yung reports ng dayaan, etcetera, I mean is it possible na bumalik tayo sa manual?

ATTY. ONA: Siguro mahirap ma-compare 'yung barangay at SK elections sa regular na national, local elections. We have to remember na 'pag barangay, SK, isang barangay lang 'yung bibilangin mong boto. Hindi ganoon karami comparing ito a midterm national, local election na thousands 'yung bibilangin.

So may iba't ibang factors to decide. But what's happening now, what will happen in the October 30 elections is ipa-pilot ni Comelec 'yung gamit ng makina in two barangays. One in Cavite and one in Quezon City to see if mas magiging efficient ba ang use ng makina.

But sa amin sa LENTE, kasi natatandaan natin ang paggamit ng makina, kailangan mo siyang i-tweak dahil depend sa mga kandidato. So kailangan customized ang mga makina. And we have 42,027 barangays. We have many machines because we've procured two batches of machines already, three batches na nga.

So walang problema sa makina. Pero 'yung tweaking, customizing at yung kaakibat na gastos kailangang mas pag-aralan pa eh. If it's really cost-effective to use the machines or just stick by manual elections dahil hindi naman ganoon karami 'yung bibilangin na boto ng ating mga electoral board members compared to a midterm election na mas maraming botante kasi we're talking about municipalities here, cities na maraming mga barangay.

So baka mas kailangan pang pag-aralan. But going back to sa issue ng use ng makina at hybrid or manual, we've been used to having elections and seeing the results of elections overnight. Last year alas otso pa lang, alas nuwebe ng gabi, we've somehow know the result of the presidential position.

The following day, alam na natin halos lahat kung sinong panalo. So we have to really study if 'yun bang reason natin for automation to make it faster, more efficient would tweak or trump 'yung issues ng transparency. Because that's what's going against the use of machines in the elections.

Hindi siya transparent. We don't see how the machines count the vote but they're measures to ensure that the machines count correctly the votes, for example random manual audit. So kailangan pag-aralan. At ang lagi natin sinasabi at hinihiling sa Comelec, when you do all of these thoughts, please always include civil society groups, election groups like us in the discussions and consultations.

Hindi puwedeng sila-sila lang 'yung nag-uusap kasi that would not be good for the elections, the transparency of the elections.

HOWIE: Well, you mentioned speed. But speed is a double-edged sword as we saw last year. Mabilis nga. Mabilis lumabas 'yung mga winner, 'yung mga resulta. But on the other hand, may mga nagduda sa outcome dahil para sa kanila masyado namang mabilis. We want fast results but we want clean results.

Up to now, you know there are doubts. So para sa 'yo, I'm sure you've seen all of these reports, you've kept track of these discussions about IP addresses. A lot of it is very technical. Kayo bilang watchdog and mayroon kayong institutional memory of elections, you know these systems. For LENTE and for yourself personally, do you think the May 2022 elections were honest?

ATTY. ONA: For us it's honest because we were part of the random manual audit 2019, 2022 and we saw how the machines accurately counted the votes. 'Yung sa random manual audit po, 'yung 'yung binibilang isa-isa 'yung mga balota at kino-compare 'yung manual count du'n sa machine count ng mga makina. And we saw in the elections last year how the machines accurately counted the votes.

So for us in LENTE and ako personally, the elections last year were clean and it really reflects the will of the Filipinos. It really reflects the votes of the Filipinos.

HOWIE: Actually, when we last spoke, April 2022 your main concern was disinformation, the kind of information that was entering people, voters' minds. So looking back on it, how critical a factor was information and disinformation?

ATTY. ONA: Disinformation is a critical factor because it goes into how people vote. Unlike machines na magbibilang lang na boto, garbage in, garbage out. But disinformation goes into the heart of the vote of the voter because it affects how the voter would decide on who to vote for.

That's why in last year's elections, we really see disinformation as one of the biggest problems because not all of us have equal access to information. Some don't have unlimited internet to be able to validate or double-check information. Mayroon lang may free data tapos ang nababasa lang puro clickbait.

So malaki 'yung role ng disinformation and we saw also the role of influencers in last year's elections on how they affect the vote of people. And nakita rin natin dahil in the recent controversy involving a personality, na mayroon talagang mga network of influencers sa nababayaran to make stories trend just to affect the narrative or to affect how people think about a certain personality or think about a certain transaction.

HOWIE: Kasi primary vehicle for educating voters in the past have been debates.

This last presidential election, the winning candidate did not bother to participate in any debate. And we see that in the United States, the leading Republican candidate, Donald Trump, is also not participating in debates. So it's not just a Philippine trend or thing.

Debate, traditionally, has been a pillar of election campaigns and the democratic process. So anong magiging effect niyan on elections here on?

ATTY. ONA: That's why we support bills filed in Congress right now mandating candidates to attend debates because we don't want what happened in last year's election to take precedent in future electoral exercises.

But at the same time, we also recognize that voter's education is not an effective tool if it would be done three months before the conduct of the elections. Mas kailangan ng civic education ng mga tao rather than voter's education because there's really a need to embed in the discussion the education of our people, especially our students on the importance, the functions of the different positions in the government and how disinformation affects how people decide or how people vote.

So one strategy is policy. Support the pending bills in Congress requiring attendance in debates but the longer approach or the longer solution to it is really civic education.

There's a need to have a longer discussion on the role of government officials, on how governance affects all of us and not only certain sectors of the population. So that's our approach and that dilemma in last year's elections.

HOWIE: So salamat sa oras mo, Attorney Ona. At higit sa lahat, salamat sa inyong pagbabantay sa ating eleksyon, Atty. Ona Caritos, executive director ng LENTE, election watchdog. Sana hindi ka magsawa. Mabuhay ka, Attorney Ona. Thank you so much.

ATTY. ONA: Thank you, sir Howie. Thank you, mga ka-podcast.

—GMA Integrated News