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Lav Diaz talks about working with John Lloyd Cruz, Ronnie Lazaro in ‘When the Waves Are Gone’
Long drawn, epic at eight hours long sometimes, shot in poetic black and white, it's not surprising for Lav Diaz's films to be likened to Zen meditation.
In 2016, after she saw "Hele ng Hiwagang Hapis" (A Lullaby To the Sorrowful Mystery) in the Berlin International Film Festival, Meryl Streep reportedly said of Lav, “This guy. This film. He re-arranged the molecular system in my brain.”
The historical drama that fuses Jose Rizal’s El Filibusterismo and real-life events in the last few years of the Philippine revolution against Spain won the Silver Bear Alfred Bauer Prize for “opening new perspectives in cinematic art."
"A Lullaby to a Sorrowful Mystery" is first film by Diaz that John Lloyd Cruz would appear in. Fast forward to 2022 and the two would come together for a fifth time in "Kung Wala Nang Mga Alon" (When the Waves Are Gone).
It runs for 187 minutes long — a little more than three hours — and features another Diaz mainstay: Actor Ronnie Lazaro.
"Alon" tackles the drug war under the Duterte administration. In it, Cruz plays a cop with a conscience, Lieutenant Hermes Papauran, described as one of the best investigators in the police force.
Based on the film’s synopsis, when Papauran finds out the rampant extra judicial killings against drug suspects involved his fellow law enforcers, he suffers from anxiety, mental and psychological anguish, manifesting in severe psoriasis.
Lazaro plays Lt. Primo Macabantay, mentor of Papauran. Also in the cast is Shamaine Centenera-Buencamino, who plays Papauran’s sister. DMs Boongaling, one of the underrated, underappreciated character actors who is also a regular in Diaz’s films, plays the real-life photojournalist Raffy Lerma.
After having its world premiere this September in the Venice Film Festival, Waves will be shown twice at the ongoing QCinema International Film Festival.
First is today, Wednesday, November 23 in Trinoma Cinema 1 starting 1pm. Second screening would be at Gateway Cinema 1 on Saturday, November 26, also starting at 1pm.
Diaz obliged to an exclusive interview about the film via email. Here’s the excerpt.
The last time you worked with Ronnie Lazaro was 2016 for "Hele Sa Hiwagang Hapis." Given it’s that long you’ve worked together, when you were writing the script of Kapag Wala Nang Mga Alon (When The Waves Are Gone) was Sir Ronnie the one you have in mind to play the character of enigmatic soldier-professor, Lt. Primo Macabantay?
While we were still doing location hunt in Sorsogon, sometime in November 2021, I haven’t written the script so I messaged Ronnie via text if he’s working. When he told me he’s available, I told him na may gagawin kami. He said yes at once. Ganun lang ka-simple ang ugnayan namin. When he committed to the project, in my mind I started to mold the possible character for him in my film.
How’s it working with Sir Ronnie then and now?
Ronnie is an old friend, so it’s easy to work with him. Communicating with him is fast, less worries. And let us add the fact that he’s an intelligent and sensitive actor. Ang lawak ng kamalayan niya.
What year did you start conceptualizing Waves, then from pre-production to post-production? Inabot po ba ng COVID-19 pandemic?
The first story concept of "When the Waves are Gone" was supposed to be a gangster film. I think almost seven years. We went back to it in 2021, during the height of the pandemic. From November 2021 to January 2022, I went around on my own in Sorsogon, looking for answers in an ambivalent milieu, questioning my own morality, ang kalaguyo ko’y ang dagat, hangin, bundok at alikabok. When I found the locations I deemed fit for the shoot, I called them up, my staff and my actors to follow.
How did you come out with the story? Is there a real life Lt. Primo or is it just a general idea?
The story for Kapag Wala nang mga Alon was different when we started conceptualizing it several years ago. Gangster film siya dati. It was delayed because of my laziness.
When the Duterte administration came in with his bloody drug war, the photo-journalist Raffy Lerma became one of the witnesses. Isang katunayan nito ay ang litrato niyang binansagang ‘Pieta’. As one of my struggles as a responsible filmmaker, my reaction is my cinema.
The first was (the 2018 musical film) Panahon ng Halimaw (Season of the Devil), followed by Lahi, Hayop (Genus, Pan) in 2020, Historya ni Ha (History of Ha) in 2021 at itong Kapag Wala Nang mga Alon.
I wrote the script or the narrative of Waves during the shoot. That’s been my process ever since, I write the script while shooting the film. Bagamat fiction nga ang pelikula, hinugot ko mula sa mga nakikita ko, nasasaksihan at nararanasan sa paligid ang kuwento at ang mga tauhan.
Like Sir Ronnie, John Lloyd Cruz has been a regular in your films. I think Waves is his fifth film after A Lullabye, The Woman Who Left, History of Ha and Servando Magdamag/A Tale of Filipino Violence. How’s it working with John Lloyd over the years then and now?
Like Ronnie, John Lloyd has become like a family member. During the height of controversies, his alleged turning back away from show business and other speculations and all the bad things coming out and written about him, he was with us. We were doing Historya ni Ha in a remote place in Palawan. We were quietly shooting a film, kapiling ng putik, lamok, putakte at baha.
And then we continued shooting Servando Magdamag/Isang Salaysay ng Karahasang Pilipino, this time in San Miguel, Bulacan. We ignored the bad news, the mudslinging of those who thrived in the negative, those who do nothing but envy and rot their own souls. We forged on. It’s important the making of cinema is focused on our responsibility to culture, to our nation, to humanity.
And this has been what’s wonderful in the evolution of John Lloyd Cruz. From the complicated and intoxicating show business he was in, he looked for something else and continues to search, he questioned (the system) and openly, wholeheartedly joined a different form and level of struggle in arts and culture.
And now, he is the one who would tell us that he has found a new cause and perspective in his journey, not only in his art, his craft but a more extensive struggle in his life.
Yung character po ni Lt. Hermes Papauran was written with John Lloyd in mind?
Yes. That character was really meant for John Lloyd.
In an interview, John Lloyd said he idolized Sir Ronnie more after doing Hele. Was there a request back then from him to act together again in any of your films?
I didn’t get a request from John to be with Ronnie again in my next films after Hele, but he often mentioned Ronnie as the actor he always looked up to. It was from Ronnie whom I first heard the name John Lloyd Cruz. I didn’t know John Lloyd because ever since, we don’t watch television. We have no TV at home. Back in 2005, when Ronnie and I was doing Heremias, he told me one of these days, we get John Lloyd (for my next film). He has high praises for John Lloyd because at the time, they were doing a TV series wherein they played father and son.
Only few of John Lloyd’s fans may know that you also acted in films. One of these was Sigrid Bernardo’s Lorna topbilled by Shamaine Centenera-Buencamino, playing the titular role Lorna. You played her cool, bohemian artist hippie boyfriend. I remember there was a scene you even went semi-nude. Matanong ko sir, sariling desisyon nyo po ba yun or may instructions from direk Sigrid?
Sigrid started with me in cinema, something like that. She was on her last year in college when she joined the shoot for Ebolusyon ng Isang Pamilyang Pilipino, as actress, as member of the staff and crew, taga-gupit ng kuko. She was with UP Theater. She did everything during the shoot to learn. She lived in my tight studio apartment in Cubao to help in the post-production and learn. Ilang beses kong pinalalayas yan pero ayaw umalis, iiyak. Matigas ang ulo. So when she became a director herself, sa tingin ko, isang pagbawi niya, na may kasamang paglalambing, ay ang ilantad sa sangsinukuban ang aking puwet (to show to the world my ass).
I’ve heard from (veteran much-awarded actor) Tata Nanding Josef, you don’t discuss the films you’re making unless they’re finished, so I won’t ask what’s next after When the Waves are Gone. Tanong ko na lang sir, ilan po ang kasunod?
There is so much to do. There is a lot we can do. Lalo na sa pag-aayos ng ating bayan. Lalo na sa pagwawasto ng kamalayang Pilipino. Sa pag-aambag sa kaayusan ng mundo. Let us not get tired.
— LA, GMA Integrated News
